Just for everyones information, I have purchased well in excess of a five figure investment, of a certain manufacturer of USA prototypical trains, and they are totally unwilling to honor factory warranty items to the tune of only $115.60 plus $5.00 in shipping charges.
Management of said Trains Corporation was very rode and uncooperative, I would have been better off to have spoken to Charlie The Tuna.
Buyers Beware.......
Byron C.
That sucks Byron, sorry to hear, doesnt really apply to me since if I was to ever purchase something train related that costly, I would end up like this:
I get crap when I buy a $40 Mack!...care to hint at what it was you bought, so us more clever types can figure who the object of your manufacturing dissapointment is? 5(!) figures? thats 00,000.00 right? not many of them, in fact only one comes to my mind at that altitiude. hmmm...
Have fun with your trains
cacole wrote:If you read the other post, "An Afternoon at the Empire II Line," there's a brand name mentioned but no indication that this is the product under discussion.
Hmmm, if you say so!
-Brian
Well people need and compies also need to honor what they sell, do, etc..... Now it is going down the drain! The all mighty dollar they JUST want! What happen when customer was right? Oh yeah when my father and grandpaw was around they did it on handshake. I am still that way.
Vic, you get my email?
Toad
The problem is we only hear one side.
Not that you're wrong, mind you.
I have watched this for a long time.
Folks who will claim something is defective without proving they purchased it, just wanting a new one.
Different story, but hang on.
There are portions of warranties that exclude customer-inflicted damage.
There is also recently one manufacturer who states if you change something (like, oh, to make it actually function), your warranty is DOA.
Let's say you backed over it with your automobile.
Or, you mixed up your own thick, black, mushroom-cloud smoke fluid and burned the top of the loco off.
Or, you're running an arc-welder for a track supply, and derail, taking out all the internal wiring (happens more often than you think).
No warranty.
Then, you have the moro.....ooops.....service folks who make it up "on the fly", so to speak.
"Oh, you hauled how many cars? Anything more than 4 cars voids your warranty!"
Not knowing what the unit is, who made it, what the issue is (what broke) and why they did not honor the warranty makes it hard to second guess.
Personally, unless they have the parts I need, I can say I have never sent a loco back for warranty service in 55 years.
If they don't have the parts, I find another source or make them.
Or, pitch the unit and try another brand.
enginear wrote:As far as the dollar figure, I've got a lot invested myself. Then just look at the amount of stainless track and equipment he's running, it has to be a high amount! Joe
Yes Joe, it is a VERY HIGH amount.......So I ask ????
Where is the point of reasonable "customer satisfaction" in reference to the customers dollars spent and loyal customer support, through continual purchase of the product.
Just so all know, I am not picking on anyone, choosing sides, or casting blame.
These are the facts from the "other side".
I checked with the manufacturer in question. Since last September, they have provided numerous axle/gear sets, I crossed up the numbers a bit, either 7 or 28 (and that might be 7 axles of 28 wheels). 4 bottom truck cover plates, all at N/C. They have replaced and rebuilt trucks. Rebuilds, near as I can tell, are N/C. More roof-mounted horns than they could tell me an exact number on. Lift rings, air hoses, coupler mounts, passenger car vestibule ends, doors, lights, and near as I can tell, the only thing charged for so far have been replacement trucks, possibly some of the small bits. The trucks were flat worn out. The detail parts are not warranty, rather crash or rough handling issues. They even sent a tube of lubricant at no charge at one point so the trucks could be lubed by the customer. The only items invoiced are one truck in September that was too worn or damaged for rebuilding, one in April.
This is the warranty: Limited One-Year Warranty This USA Trains Locomotive is warranted for one year from the date of purchase against defects in material or workmanship. We will repair or replace (at our option) the defective part without charge for parts or labor within the one year of the original date of purchase provided the warranty registration card has been received by USA Trains. This warranty does not cover items that have been abused or damaged by careless handling or improper operation such as a train derailment, modification, or repair by non-factory technicians. Parts that "wear out" due to excessive use are also not covered under this warranty. USA Trains reserves the right to determine "excessive use". Transportation costs incurred by the customer are not covered under this warranty.
Curmudgeon wrote: Just so all know, I am not picking on anyone, choosing sides, or casting blame.These are the facts from the "other side".I checked with the manufacturer in question. Since last September, they have provided numerous axle/gear sets, I crossed up the numbers a bit, either 7 or 28 (and that might be 7 axles of 28 wheels). 4 bottom truck cover plates, all at N/C. They have replaced and rebuilt trucks. Rebuilds, near as I can tell, are N/C. More roof-mounted horns than they could tell me an exact number on. Lift rings, air hoses, coupler mounts, passenger car vestibule ends, doors, lights, and near as I can tell, the only thing charged for so far have been replacement trucks, possibly some of the small bits. The trucks were flat worn out. The detail parts are not warranty, rather crash or rough handling issues. They even sent a tube of lubricant at no charge at one point so the trucks could be lubed by the customer. The only items invoiced are one truck in September that was too worn or damaged for rebuilding, one in April. This is the warranty: Limited One-Year Warranty This USA Trains Locomotive is warranted for one year from the date of purchase against defects in material or workmanship. We will repair or replace (at our option) the defective part without charge for parts or labor within the one year of the original date of purchase provided the warranty registration card has been received by USA Trains. This warranty does not cover items that have been abused or damaged by careless handling or improper operation such as a train derailment, modification, or repair by non-factory technicians. Parts that "wear out" due to excessive use are also not covered under this warranty. USA Trains reserves the right to determine "excessive use". Transportation costs incurred by the customer are not covered under this warranty.
OK Dave,
So you have contacted someone there, GOOD....Now you say that "these are the facts".
As they are telling you, or as you have seen on paper ???
I HAVE all of the paper trail FACTS !!!
If infact you would continue to want to make yourself a willing participant in this saga, I will be more than glad to make ALL of the TRUE FACTS available to you also. As I was also willing to make these available to them, however Charlie was too rude to be willing to even accept them, nor even be willing to listen to me.
NOTHING was EVER rebuilt for me, I was charged a total of $95.85 for a new replacement motor block, as well as the container of Grease, as well as two sets of horns and air hoses, also for 7 sets of pickupshoes and springs, and my used motor block that I sent to them was never returned, I've repeatedly asked for it back, all to no avail.....
I was charged $78.10 for two sets of geared wheels and axles, two more sets of horns, and air hoses, and four coupler lift ring sets.
So you're being told that I was GIVEN all this stuff FREE OF CHARGE, and that a number of REPAIRS were done for me FREE OF CHARGE......THAT is an outright LIE....
And can you tell me please, where in their warranty slip does it say I am Limited on how much I may run a set of engines during the one year warranty period !!!!! I DO run my trains, is it my fault that these are a set that I have run, but yet they did not hold up under NORMAL use.....I mean of the F-3's, I own a total of 28 of them in various roads alone, some 47 of their aluminum streamlined passenger cars also. As well as much more, as I've already made known to you by previous E-mail.
Let me EDIT here and add this FACT, I own in excess of $15,000.oo to $20,000.oo of USA Trains Merchandise, so at just what price does a customers loyalty get any kind of proper consideration......
So you wanna really try to enterveen here or not ???? Because I do have all of the available facts....
Byron F. Custer
"As I was also willing to make these available to them, however Charlie was too rude to be willing to even accept them, nor even be willing to listen to me."
So.......what happened to the locomotives to cause them to break?
Nothing really happened to the particular engines in question, other than normal wear, to the gears, the gears that the half shafts are pressed into didn't even REALLY wear out, they all just started cracking, thus allowing the half shafts to slide out, and thus the wheel width was to wide and they'd derail at switches.
The other small parts that were requested were missing or damaged on newly received engines, I thought that customer loyalty due to all of the purchases I had made of their product would mean something to them when I had first asked if they would be willing to replace the items in question.
I was initially led to believe there would or was no problem covering them under the warranty, when I initially contacted them and explained what had happened, and to the degree of my ownership of their product lines, and what had possibly happened in shipping or what ever, however I was unpleasantly surprised when they went ahead, even without my approval, and charged me for a good number of the items on a credit card of mine that they still had on record from the past.
Might have helped if you'd passed out more information first time rather than just blasting at a specific manufacturer.
The manufacturer had all receipts on his desk, having had to deal with a call from a certain magazine on your behalf.
He read right off the invoices sent to you.
Those are facts.
However, many years ago I was taught there are two sides to any story.
Yours.
Mine.
And somewhere in between is the truth.
So, the "other side" of the story has been posted.
Your first invoice was dated September 8, 2007.
This is 11 months later.
If the loco that had bad wheels and trucks was less than a month old when you got that first order of parts, your warranty is still good.
If not, it has expired. That is why the full warranty was posted.
You break detail parts?By new ones like everybody else does.
Wear out the trucks?Buy new ones.
Remember the one-year warranty.
If, in fact, the gears are still splitting, even on new trucks and wheelsets, I am surprised, but, had you published that information in your first posting I could have asked about it.
I do believe you just got this thread locked.
What you have posted was/is not the complete list of parts on the original receipts, each dated 9/5/07, 3/31/08 and 4/8/08. respectively.
So your information is incorrect as you have posted it here.
So are you really interested in the complete facts instead of only half truths ???
Curmudgeon wrote: I do believe you just got this thread locked.
Dave,
If the thread gets locked it is because of big time money making business not wanting to show the truth of a little man.
Note, in GRM they have product reviews which would/could sway your willing to buy a product why would I lock them?
Now here we have a business owner said not to want even to speak to person about the products/money/other things because he is busy. Yeah I understand a owner is busy but to get a problem solved come on.
I think he tried to go through proper channels but it came to this, sad to say.
William Pugh
AKA Toad
LGBtrains1963 wrote:I also have called USA trains a few years (4) back to ask about a engine (not to be repaired, just about a engine I wanted to buy) and was talked to with rude tone by someone on the phone, after I got off the phone I said to myself I would never buy a USA train or any other train from Charles Ro Trains.. This also a thing that I feel we will run into with the fall of LGB, now these guys are the big boys in the United States, Until we get LGB back here these guys are on top and customer service is 2nd to there sales... But no customer service, no return sales.. That is how I feel about it!
It was never my intention to bring this to the controversy that it seems to be here.
I just wanted some proper consideration to be shown to myself as a loyal purchasing customer, and after considerable patience and repeatedly just trying to speak with him about this matter this is where it has evolved.
Mind you we are only talking about more of a principle to a situation than the actual cost involved here at this point, I mean only $121.60 versus over $20,000.oo. OK everyone....
After reading this thread I have to think back to a converstaion I had with one of the guys a NS trains. I had asked about some USA engines and why they didnt have very many. I was told that they are not carrying them anymore. I asked why and was told that they were tired of their lack of support and the rude treament, the term "very difficult to deal with" was used several times.
That being said I have a solution for Buy Aristo-Craft!! .
I have never worked with a more pleasant and customer service driven company. I called this past week with some questions about this months sale, and was transfered to Scott. Scott was very nice and extremly helpful and took the time to go and get answers for question he didnt know, and even looked up available stock on some items I was asking about. We were on the phone for over a half hour!
He did all of this not for a large order but for a free item give away!!!!
I talked with Scott for a little after he found out the info for me and mentioned that I had met Lewis Polk at york a few years back and how nice he was. Scott told me thats nice to hear and that his Uncle has always been like that.
Turns out the Scott was Scott Polk, nephew of Lewis Polk.
Aristo-craft is truly a family run business, that loves what they are doing and it shows.
With that level of customer support I for one will be running Aristo-Craft exculsively.
I had to come on here and post to this. No I don't buy a lot of train stuff. But I do work for a manufacturer. Not of train items, but other items. I can't tell you many times we have honored the warranty, even though something was out of warranty, just to prevent this kind of thing going on. To save the reputation of the company, a supervisor should have talked to you to try to help. And under NO circumstances should a credit card number have been used without your consent. A reputable company may have that information on file, but should never use that as that could constitute fraud.
Many times, in my day to day work, I have sent out items to customers at no charge, to keep them happy. And normal wear and tear should always be considered, especially on something that is meant to be used.
I would call the company back, tell them that using my card without authorization consitutes fraud on their part, and ask to speak to someone who could actually help me. If the person on the phone is rude, then let their boss know. They are in the wrong line of worki.
Just my two cents worth.
Yes I do have a real problem with that having been done Bravo, but that's another issue for another day in the near future.
And to Dave,
You also were evidentally not told that I have been in contact with them since soon after the first of this year initially, numerous times to be honest. All to no avail. I was constantly told he'd get back to me but HE/Charlie Ro, never would.....
Santa Fe,
See my comment to Bravo there, and thank you all very much for your interest and voiced concerns here.
I wasn't going to add to this thread, But I totally understand.
Our town of 6,000 ,there is only 4 to 5 plumbing companies, thus one plumber told me, "well they are mad at us this year, next year they'll be mad at the next guy, but down the line they will be back to us again.
The party your talking about jumped all over me after a question at one show. I could not believe it. My buddy didn't think I said it wrongly.
But because i do like their products and want them, I simply don't deal with hinm direct.
Its like you have to learn which company and how to deal with them to get what you want or need.
Even my favorite company has selective answering of e-mail questions. I ask 3 questions and the easiest gets answered.
So I only ask one at a time.
thats life.
Is it REAL? or Just 1:29 scale?
Long live Outdoor Model Railroading.
Get the Garden Railways newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month