It has occurred to me that some sort of sound-deadening material should go under the tracks. This thought came to me at a garage sale where I was eyeballing some eh.... 3/8" thick pressed foam carpet underlayment. The stuff that has many different colors of foam smooshed and glued together. It seemed firm enough using the 'pinch test'.
All my stuff will be lightweight, 0-4-0 & 0-6-0 pulling 2-axle cars. Slowly. On strap-iron rails.
It seems the advantages are many: free to a lucky passerby on trash day; probably easily bevelled on a bandsaw or with saber saw; glue down application; should hold glued ballast easily; and, did I mention free?
Has anyone tried this stuff?
Les W.
Tom Trigg
ttrigg wrote:I tried it once on an N scale layout. Thought it looked good, until I ran my first train over it. Seems I got the nails in a tad bit too far, thus squeezing the foam thin at points. The up down roller coaster ride for the cars played extreme havock on keeping the cars connected. So I say "if you do it, then make sure your nails/screws are set to a even depth."
Hmm. Excellent point. The stuff would be inconsistent by its nature.
What's the usual stuff folks use? I tried homasote (blackboard)--the stuff they put on houses--and it was a nightmare to cut on the bevel. Terrible mess. Finally gave up. This was years ago with my Lionel layout.
I've thought of using the pink insulation board; it isn't like I'd use a lot of it. Of course, all nails would go thru to the ply underlayment. I'll be doing open-frame benchwork.
Thanx for the hedzup.
Les
The one thing about any underlayment, if it is to deaden sound, is not to fasten the track through it into the plywood substrate. That defeats the whole purpose! As far as using the pink styrofoam insulation, I once built an HOn30 layout on a piece of the blue stuff, glued and ballasted the track down, and it was noisy. Perhaps styrofoam insulation is too rigid to deaden sound?
SandyR
I used cork 3/16" thick under the last incarnation of my layout, but I found most of the noise was coming from the metal wheels on metal rails, you can do the same, it wont hurt, but I found using plastic wheels was much quieter, but track cleaning becomes an issue, no clean answer.
On my current layout, it brass track right on the plywood, no underlayment.
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I was just researching roadbed for my indoor railroad. I'm not concearned with the noise but I want to achieve a realistic raised bed with ballast. I have my track on 1/2" ply sections for now. My challenger is very heavy. I asked a man in the O gauge forum what was under his track and he replied it was ceiling tile. Thought that might work. He suggested he was going to add either foam roadbed or carpet underlayment between track and tiles( I'm not sure why). Then he would ballast the track. I thought the ballast should be glued like on my HO scale. I worry that it might move too much on carpet pad. I might use either 1/4" hardi-board if its high enough or 1/2" cement board ( tile backer) cause the stuff does not expand. It's probably going to be expensive though. probably will end up with a second ply strip to gain bed elevation for now.
I wonder if I could build up real crusher fines indoors to create a raised bed that would stay in place over my ply sub roadbed? So I'm looking for answers too.
vsmith wrote: I used cork 3/16" thick under the last incarnation of my layout, but I found most of the noise was coming from the metal wheels on metal rails, you can do the same, it wont hurt, but I found using plastic wheels was much quieter, but track cleaning becomes an issue, no clean answer. On my current layout, it brass track right on the plywood, no underlayment.
Vic, I intend to use plastic wheels--mostly because that's all I've got. I'll fab up wipers from the powered track, but haven't progressed that far. Thanks for the insight.
dougdagrump wrote:If you use a glued down ballast there is no real need for the use of nails/screws. Once the ballast is secured and the glue has cured the fasteners can be removed. On my "O" ceiling/wall mounted track I used the Woodland Scenics foam underlayment with double stick tape and hot melt glue to hold the track. It is quiet as a mouse, even with two powered Atlas SD-35's pulling a dozen diecast 4 bay hoppers and a dozen diecast tankcars. The only thing you hear with the sound off is the wheels rolling over the tube track rail joints. Almost prototypical !
Doug:
Actually, there is a good reason for securing track to roadbed: I'm doing 'strap-iron' ca 1850's on my SL, and that pressure-steamed wood won't hold a radius, I fear.
SandyR wrote: The one thing about any underlayment, if it is to deaden sound, is not to fasten the track through it into the plywood substrate. That defeats the whole purpose! As far as using the pink styrofoam insulation, I once built an HOn30 layout on a piece of the blue stuff, glued and ballasted the track down, and it was noisy. Perhaps styrofoam insulation is too rigid to deaden sound?SandyR
Another good point. Thing is, I really don't know, having come from hi-rail stuff years ago. Your point on 'hard coupling' to underlayment is well taken--I got good money once for solving a problem of noise transfer. Hadn't thought that far ahead. Hey, it's been a long time.
Thanks for the reply
enginear wrote: I was just researching roadbed for my indoor railroad. I'm not concearned with the noise but I want to achieve a realistic raised bed with ballast. I have my track on 1/2" ply sections for now. My challenger is very heavy. I asked a man in the O gauge forum what was under his track and he replied it was ceiling tile. Thought that might work. He suggested he was going to add either foam roadbed or carpet underlayment between track and tiles( I'm not sure why). Then he would ballast the track. I thought the ballast should be glued like on my HO scale. I worry that it might move too much on carpet pad. I might use either 1/4" hardi-board if its high enough or 1/2" cement board ( tile backer) cause the stuff does not expand. It's probably going to be expensive though. probably will end up with a second ply strip to gain bed elevation for now. I wonder if I could build up real crusher fines indoors to create a raised bed that would stay in place over my ply sub roadbed? So I'm looking for answers too.
Eng: I don't know. My gut instinct--since I'll be building my RR in ... oh, possibly six-foot sections, is to try one thing, then another. But those who've been there might have time-saving answers. My first instinct is to live with the noise (if any) since all my locos will be small and slow. I have to run a little, is my problem.
Thanks for taking time to reply.
In my 30 years of building indoor layouts I can attest to the fact that it is impossible to get a completely silent running train. The very nature of layout building defeats even the most high tech methods. I have found that gluing down the track instead of nailing it, using matte medium as a ballast glue, and getting the locos to run properly (flywheels and can motors etc) like a Swiss watch and horror of horrors, plastic rolling stock wheels, keep the railroad as quiet as humanly possible.
It's all relative as to how "loud" the train is. I've had my friends complain that my Triumph motorcycle "shakes too much", but then again it's not a Honda and it does shake, but how much is "too much"?. Same is true for your layout; I've seen some that were whisper quiet get torn down because of "noisy" roadbed. Good luck on your next one I say. We tend to live in a relative depravation society where we feel the need to have the Uber this or that and anything that is not the latest, greatest cutting edge pinnacle is not acceptable.
Any roadbed method mentioned will give out some noise, perhaps some day I will do an article on roadbed acoustics and tuning. I wouldn't go with carpet foam, too mushy and hard to cut into a useable roadbed shape. BUT if you got a free bunch of it and you really want to use it, then I see no reason why you can't as it has its merits and detriments like anything else.
This my friend is where a 300w sound system comes in handy. After all, I've seen many full scale trains up close and none of them are anything near quiet. Sound- the fifth dimension of scenery. Then again, given my limited 30 year experience, hardly make me qualified to chime in on this vocal subject.
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tangerine-jack wrote: In my 30 years of building indoor layouts I can attest to the fact that it is impossible to get a completely silent running train. The very nature of layout building defeats even the most high tech methods. Well, Jack, I guess I should've qualified my thought with the following: I don't really care much about the noise, so long as it's not obnoxiously like a cannonball rolling down a staircase. Much under that, I can't hear so well, anyway. We tend to live in a relative depravation society where we feel the need to have the Uber this or that and anything that is not the latest, greatest cutting edge pinnacle is not acceptable.You can view me as a total dropout from that society. I'm retired, tired, broke, and cheap by necessity. I also have acquired a lifetime of miscellaneous skills which I want to find use for before I forget 'em. Some folks just have to have 'it to the max'--whatever 'it' is. Not me. Any roadbed method mentioned will give out some noise, perhaps some day I will do an article on roadbed acoustics and tuning. I wouldn't go with carpet foam, too mushy and hard to cut into a useable roadbed shape. BUT if you got a free bunch of it and you really want to use it, then I see no reason why you can't as it has its merits and detriments like anything else. Nope, I have no burning desire to use carpet foam. Or any other kind of roadbed silencer. I'll start out using bevelled plywood on open framework and see what happens. (The ply will have a longitudinal stiffener underneath). I just thought it might be a good idea until I read all the responses. I'm figuring on 16" centers for the benchwork crossmembers, gusseted at the outer frame edges with a simple 'Y'-shaped piece of ply underneath.This my friend is where a 300w sound system comes in handy. After all, I've seen many full scale trains up close and none of them are anything near quiet.Heh, I still remember meeting 'Number Nine' out of Cape Girardeau when I was a kid. I was allowed to assist this old man of about 57, and throw mail sacks from the station wagon into the mailcar. Once, I even got the sacred mission of climbing into that car and going back where this guy, looking extra stern, gave me the First Class mailbag to take to the station. That's a long story, but suffice to say I can still hear that train roar in, can still smell the interior of that car. I grew up in a rural area. The MOPAC ran across one corner of our farm.I have a telegraph receiver from the Piedmont, MO depot, the stationmaster, Tully, gave it to me. It was a spare. Spent hours as a kid keying it with a J-38 key. I have so many nice memories connected with trains, both model and 1:1.Thanks for taking time to pass along your thoughts.Les
In my 30 years of building indoor layouts I can attest to the fact that it is impossible to get a completely silent running train. The very nature of layout building defeats even the most high tech methods.
Well, Jack, I guess I should've qualified my thought with the following: I don't really care much about the noise, so long as it's not obnoxiously like a cannonball rolling down a staircase. Much under that, I can't hear so well, anyway.
We tend to live in a relative depravation society where we feel the need to have the Uber this or that and anything that is not the latest, greatest cutting edge pinnacle is not acceptable.
You can view me as a total dropout from that society. I'm retired, tired, broke, and cheap by necessity. I also have acquired a lifetime of miscellaneous skills which I want to find use for before I forget 'em. Some folks just have to have 'it to the max'--whatever 'it' is. Not me.
Nope, I have no burning desire to use carpet foam. Or any other kind of roadbed silencer. I'll start out using bevelled plywood on open framework and see what happens. (The ply will have a longitudinal stiffener underneath). I just thought it might be a good idea until I read all the responses. I'm figuring on 16" centers for the benchwork crossmembers, gusseted at the outer frame edges with a simple 'Y'-shaped piece of ply underneath.
This my friend is where a 300w sound system comes in handy. After all, I've seen many full scale trains up close and none of them are anything near quiet.
Heh, I still remember meeting 'Number Nine' out of Cape Girardeau when I was a kid. I was allowed to assist this old man of about 57, and throw mail sacks from the station wagon into the mailcar. Once, I even got the sacred mission of climbing into that car and going back where this guy, looking extra stern, gave me the First Class mailbag to take to the station. That's a long story, but suffice to say I can still hear that train roar in, can still smell the interior of that car. I grew up in a rural area. The MOPAC ran across one corner of our farm.
I have a telegraph receiver from the Piedmont, MO depot, the stationmaster, Tully, gave it to me. It was a spare. Spent hours as a kid keying it with a J-38 key. I have so many nice memories connected with trains, both model and 1:1.
Thanks for taking time to pass along your thoughts.
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