How to install G scale track on top of a Pavestone wall?

[Anonymous]

I'm 68 years old and live in a senior's mobile home park in Lafayette, CO.  We had two huge cottonwood trees on our lot that were partially dead taken down acouple of years ago.  Instead of having the stumps ground down to ground level, I elected to build a four tier high Pavestone wall in an oval (approx. 25' x 10') around the two tree stumps which were about 15' apart.  When the wall was completed, we filled the inside with dirt to create a nice size raised bed.  Now I want to install G scale track on top of the wall.  Has anyone else done this?  How did you attach the track to the top of the wall?  I've heard of a product called TechniSeal Polymeric Jointing Sand that can be used as ballast then when wetted down it "sets up" to hold the track in place.  Does anyone have experience with this?  If I go this route I'm concerned with the ballast not allowing the track to expand and contract.  Any hints, suggestions or help greatly appreciated. 

 Willijrw

[Rex in Pinetop]

Will,

My previous layout was laid out on solid concrete retaining wall blocks.  I edged the lawn area with these blocks and put the track on top of them with the buildings etc up on that level.  That way I could keep the grass trimmed with a weed whacker and not have to worry about the track etc.  It did require considerable fill although I only had 3' - 4' between the lawn and the yard perimeter.  The challenge was keeping the ballast from leaving the area.  To solve that problem I made a motar tray on top of the block, laid the track in that, and then ballasted.  I think your idea of using some TechniSeal would be a good one.  My track was floating as I never attached it to the blocks.  That way it could expand/contract with the changes in temp (which are large here in the AZ desert).  Maybe you could use the TechniSeal on the edges to build a tray and then free float the ballast/track in between?  That would solve the ballast "migration" issues you might have on hard Pavestone surfaces.  The nice part about laying track on stone is that you don't get many weeds coming up through your track.  Good luck on your project.

Rex

PS  You might want to consider a rail bender so you can make your track match your existing retainer wall without having to compromise with sectional track that never quite fits.

[ttrigg]

Will:

I have some experience with the polymer.  When I go to my (not so) local stone yard and get the crusher fines that I use, I also pick up a few bags with the polymer added.  I use the "non ploymer" fines as the top coat of my subroadbed.  I use the polymer treated fines as ballast.  Since the polymer "resets" itself evertime it gets wet (i.e. sprinkler system watering the plants/rain) it basicly heals itself of any and all cracks from expansion/contraction.  I have one section, a curve about 5~6 feet long that cuts the corner of the patio.  The polymer that I get does not attach itself to the concrete, it still floats and takes the ballast with it as it moves.  Overall rating: I love the stuff and highly reccommend it.  It may not "glue" itself to the pavers but the weight of the rails and ties should hold it in place just fine.  If it floats too much for your likeing, then I would suggest a silicone sealant that is used for rubber repairs (Shoe Goo) to "glue" small sections of straight track to the pavers.  I use it all the time to hold my people in place and will easily pry off without damage to plastic people body parts.  Would not reccomend gluing the curves down as that is where 99.9% of the expansion/contraction movemnt will happen.  Hope this helps a little.l

[Capt Bob Johnson]

I have part (about 80 linear feet) of my layout on a retaining wall.  I got the track laid out, and then shot a goodly dab of clear silicone every 3 or 4 feet, and pressed the ties down into it.  let it set up overnight and it was ready to run on.   It's been there almost 5 years now.   Over the years the ties have come loose from the silicone, but the track stays in the depressions in the cured silicone.   I don't bother to ballast the part that is on the block wall.

[dougdagrump]

Depending on how level the block is you could do like the S.D. Garden RR Society did with a layout that they did at Waler Anderson Nursery. If my memory is accurate, which is debateable at this point in time , they used hot melt glue every so often and then ballasted as Tom did.

[spookytown rr]

I have fried some HO train motors because of polymeric sand.  The sand has ferric materials that are magnetic, which stuck to the wheels, which then migrated into the motors. The other concern would be that poly sand is very fine and doesn't look all that realistic as a ballast.

I would suggest drilling and pinning the track or using paver block adhesive to glue the track down to the blocks, and then use crusher fines as ballast. If you really want to secure it.

But realistically you shouldn't attach the track physically to the wall at all,  it's going to settle and shift with freeze/thaw, and those stump you did't grind out are eventually going to rot/decompose, which will mean even more settling and movement behind the wall.

 

[FJ and G]

Go withGorilla Glue. It lasts forever if installed right. You need to thoroughly wet the 2 surfaces and apply just a little of it. (too much and it expands and oozes). AND importantly, you need to apply steady pressure for about 6 hours or so. I use 10 lb weight plates to hold the ties down.

 

Ive had stuff set several years ago with it and it still survives the elements

 

I think you might want a spell of warm weather to install

 

btw, this forum was invaluable in cluing me in to using the stuff 

 

EDIT:

 

I'm assuming you are using wood ties on concrete or metal. If you are using plastic, the gorilla gluee may be a poor choice 

[grandpopswalt]

Willi,

Although I've never done it, I'd go with Rex's suggestion and fabricate some sort of "trough" or channel. The channel would be firmly attached to the pavers using screws or a construction adhesive. Then you would fill the trough with crusher fines as though it were a normal roadbed built on a dirt base. You'd have to allow for proper drainage but otherwise it should be very similar to the time tested "floating" roadbed most of us use. As someone pointed out, the pavers will shift and move over time but you'd be able to make adjustments to the track by realigning the gravel roadbed rather than having to fool around with resetting the pavers.

BTW, I'm 68 as well and I'm all about making things as maintenance free as possible.

Good luck,

Walt 

edit:

 If you're going to backfill your wall flush with the top of the pavers why not install your track roadbed just inside the pavers? That leaves the top of the pavers free for potted plants, a seating area, etc. Just a thought ...... I'm pretty sure that's what I'd do.

Walt 

 

 

[cooltech]

I'm not railroading in G scale or garden in particular, but just wanted all involved in this thread to know I enjoyed reading and learning from it.

cooltech

[Anonymous]

A hardy "Thank You, Capt. Bob)' for your helpful information.  That definately gives some direction to my G scale madness.  :)

 Willijrw in Lafayette, CO

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Rex.  Your information was MOST helpful.  Willijrw in Lafayette, CO

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Spooky, for your helpful information.   Hadn't heard of the sand getting into motors problem you mentioned but certainly worthy of consideration.  I like the "hot glue" thing for fastening track periodically to the blocks.  Much appreciated suggestions. 

 Willijrw in Lafayette, CO

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the helpful info.  MUCH appreciated! 

 Willijrw in Lafayette, CO

[Anonymous]

Your thoughts on the subject are most helpful, Walt, and much appreciated.   Yes, I can certainly relate to "maintenance free as possible" thing too!  I had thought I'd put my "mainline" around the top of the wall then put switches to track layed on the dirt inside the wall.  I've got a limited area so want to utilize all the space I can.  Thanks again, Walt! 

Willijrw in Lafayette, CO