Still confused with scales.

[altterrain]

Now to further confusicate things, there are guys using O guage track in large scale to represent 24" gauge track in G scale, I've seen that referred to as Gn24 in 1/22.5 scale.

And to completely discombobulate things, theres that whole subversive group using HO track in large scale to represent 15 inch gauge track or Gn15 in 1/22.5 scale

Not to be too much of a stickler but G scale running on O gauge 32mm track is Gn30.

-Brian 

[hoofe116]

"ToadFrog&WhiteLightn" wrote:

Yepo, had to give this thread the great RR cat!

Now he has size!

Toad

I think that pic constitutes animal cruelty, just look at how humiliated that poor cat is...even the mice are laughing

Nah, that cat's not humiliated, he's drunker 'n a skunk.

Les W. (7 degrees on the south bank of Ol' MO)

[vsmith]

Also, I have read that On30 is the use of "O-gauge" track to represent 30-inch gauge in the 1/24 scale world. 32mm(gauge) * 24(scale) = 768mm = 30 inches(real world gauge).  Maybe what I read was wrong?  Maybe I misunderstood it?

Almost, On30 is still O scale, 1/48 scale not 1/24 scale. Its not O gauge track but HO track used in O scale to represent 30 inch gauge track.

Now to further confusicate things, there are guys using O guage track in large scale to represent 24" gauge track in G scale, I've seen that referred to as Gn24 in 1/22.5 scale.

And to completely discombobulate things, theres that whole subversive group using HO track in large scale to represent 15 inch gauge track or Gn15 in 1/22.5 scale

Okay, I'll accept that I am wrong in my understanding of what On30 is supposed to mean. I hope that others that have read my prior comments will read further and see your correction so they will not be mislead by my words.

But, it leads to my point as to why I wish the lettered scales had never been promulgated.  Someday in the future someone will say they have an On30 layout and someone else, who is new to this realm will have to ask, "What is On30?"  That will require a full explanation of:

"On30 is O scale, which is 1:48, but using HO scale track (which is 16-mm gauge) to represent a 30-inch gauge track."

Then someone will ask how that is figured and that will get discussed and cussed and someone will get frustrated and award another cat award to the thread.

Then it will happen again a few months later, and again a few more months later, ad nauseum.

Wouldn't it have been simpler for the original statement to be, "I model 30" gauge in 1/48 scale."

Yes, that would require more words for the original statement, but a great savings in frustration on the part of all the newbies for years to come, and a great reduction to the number of repeat threads asking what the non-intuitive letter of the alphabet means.

And there will be no more need for poor obese cats to be dressed in frillies and awarded to threads that some folk wanted and needed to be a serious discussion to understand the subject of "scales".

 

Confusilating aint it?

We did have letter designations, it just  hasnt caught on...

F = 1/20.3 on 64mm track for standard gauge

Fn3 = 1/20.3 on 45mm track for 3' narrow guage

G = 1/22.5 on 45mm track for 1 meter gauge track~or~3' suido-scale narrow guage

H = 1/24 on 45 mm track for 3'6" gauge track

A = 1/29 on 45mm track for 4'-something guage suido-standard gauge

#1 = 1/32 on 45mm track for scale standard gauge

How many of you have ever heard of these in polite conversation?

[vsmith]

"ToadFrog&WhiteLightn" wrote:

Yepo, had to give this thread the great RR cat!

Now he has size!

Toad

I think that pic constitutes animal cruelty, just look at how humiliated that poor cat is...even the mice are laughing

Nah, that cat's not humiliated, he's drunker 'n a skunk.

Les W. (7 degrees on the south bank of Ol' MO)

That explains the bottle in the background....

[Semper Vaporo]

Also, I have read that On30 is the use of "O-gauge" track to represent 30-inch gauge in the 1/24 scale world. 32mm(gauge) * 24(scale) = 768mm = 30 inches(real world gauge).  Maybe what I read was wrong?  Maybe I misunderstood it?

Almost, On30 is still O scale, 1/48 scale not 1/24 scale. Its not O gauge track but HO track used in O scale to represent 30 inch gauge track.

Now to further confusicate things, there are guys using O guage track in large scale to represent 24" gauge track in G scale, I've seen that referred to as Gn24 in 1/22.5 scale.

And to completely discombobulate things, theres that whole subversive group using HO track in large scale to represent 15 inch gauge track or Gn15 in 1/22.5 scale

Okay, I'll accept that I am wrong in my understanding of what On30 is supposed to mean. I hope that others that have read my prior comments will read further and see your correction so they will not be mislead by my words.

But, it leads to my point as to why I wish the lettered scales had never been promulgated.  Someday in the future someone will say they have an On30 layout and someone else, who is new to this realm will have to ask, "What is On30?"  That will require a full explanation of:

"On30 is O scale, which is 1:48, but using HO scale track (which is 16-mm gauge) to represent a 30-inch gauge track."

Then someone will ask how that is figured and that will get discussed and cussed and someone will get frustrated and award another cat award to the thread.

Then it will happen again a few months later, and again a few more months later, ad nauseum.

Wouldn't it have been simpler for the original statement to be, "I model 30" gauge in 1/48 scale."

Yes, that would require more words for the original statement, but a great savings in frustration on the part of all the newbies for years to come, and a great reduction to the number of repeat threads asking what the non-intuitive letter of the alphabet means.

And there will be no more need for poor obese cats to be dressed in frillies and awarded to threads that some folk wanted and needed to be a serious discussion to understand the subject of "scales".

 

Confusilating aint it?

We did have letter designations, it just  hasnt caught on...

F = 1/20.3 on 64mm track for standard gauge

Fn3 = 1/20.3 on 45mm track for 3' narrow guage

G = 1/22.5 on 45mm track for 1 meter gauge track~or~3' suido-scale narrow guage

H = 1/24 on 45 mm track for 3'6" gauge track

A = 1/29 on 45mm track for 4'-something guage suido-standard gauge

#1 = 1/32 on 45mm track for scale standard gauge

How many of you have ever heard of these in polite conversation?

A part of that cornfuzion is that "number one" is not a "Letter" so it appears to be out of place and to not be a part of the continuum of letter designations.  I have seen a few advertisers express it as the letter "I" apparently because "1" doesn't seem to be right, so it must be an "I".  To combat this some people started to include the pound sign ("#") in front of it.

Of course, in reality, the letter "O" is not supposed to be a "letter" at all, but the number ZERO.  The gauges started at ZERO and progressed up-wards to 1, 2, 3, etc.

When "HO" came along it was supposed to be Half the size of "O", the "H" representing "Half", and thus should be pronounced as "Aitch Zero", (not "Aitch Oh"), (but it is not half of "O" since if it were half of 1:48 it would be 1:96, not 1:87).

This is otherwise known as "designed by a committee", wherein (as per usual) there was no committee and thus made no communication with the other members!  I think synonym is "anarchy".

At least today, we have this forum where we can learn what others have done and are doing and can MAYBE get a bit closer to being on the same page, besotted felines not withstanding.

 

[cabbage]

The size used by most Edwardian Colonial frieght wagons was 3 feet 3 inches. This is because of mechanics. Large wheels roll easier and smoother than small wheels and the wear on the bearings is lower because of the reduced axle rotation speed. Most axle boxes of the period where plain metal bearing i.e. chunks of white metal with an oil wick beside them...

Coach disc wheels of this period had holes cut in the discs to increase the resonance point and lighten them for higher speed running and were around 4 feet 9 inches.

The wheel hubs of this era could be made of either gun metal or wood, (the latter was normally found in coach wheels -it gave quieter running).

The rims would be painted with either white lead or black bitumen.

My late father was fanatical on the subject of wheels, as he should have been -he was in charge of designing and making them both at Bulawayo and Derby. The most difficult wheels he ever did were for a rebuild of a Midland Counties Railway "Spinner" -they were 8 feet in diameter. The machine had to be stripped down and set for the lowest possible rotation speed (I think they had to make some of the gears too), and the cutters had to be ordered for the highest possible cutting speed. He always said it was the most dangerous thing he had ever done in his life -this from an ex-Chindit...

regards

ralph

[cabbage]

Hoofe,

You may find this useful, I know it is mainly UK and Colonial stuff -but it will give you some idea of how things developed.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/index.htm#stock

regards

ralph

[Anonymous]

Yes, scales can make a heck of a thread!

Toad

[SNOWSHOE]

Wow, I never realized I was opening a can of worms with this question.  It is very intresting hearing everyones thoughts.  I do have a better undertanding now but at the same time a little more confused.  No doubt an intresting topic. 

[GearDrivenSteam]

What kills me is the On3 crowd. They model O scale (1/48) to represent 3' gauge, handlay all their track, but there's only 1/8" difference in the gauge from their On3 to On30. THEN, they have the nads to look down their noses at the On30 crowd. Figure THAT one out.

[Capt Bob Johnson]

I guess its all a matter of what flips your skirt!  I sure ain't looking down my nose at anybody who does a creditable job of modeling in any scale or guage; they probably are doing better at it than I can!

[dwbeckett]

DW

[Anonymous]

Take a look at the   LargeScaleWiki

Even they can't get it right. They list Gauges under the heading Scales

Per

 

 

Dear Per,

That's the nature of the beast with a Wiki. I happen to know the person who started that particular Wiki topic rather well. The part with the "Gauge 1" etc. was added by someone else, however since the scales in question i.e. 1:32; 1:22.5(6)  are referred to as "Gauge 1" in English and "Spur 1" in German, respectively "Gauge3" in English and "Spur2" in German that is an old carry-over and considerably less confusing than some of the "explanations" one can read in other places.

What governs the scale is still what is quoted on that page:

Definition

The ratio of the prototype (master) to the model i.e 1:xx (xx=any number) The integer "1" stands for the prototype (master). If it leads e.g. 1:20.3; it designates the model as being smaller than the prototype (master). If it follows e.g. 4:1; it designates the model as being larger than the prototype (master).

All the rest follows from there, quite simple.

 

Hope that helps.Best regards

 

ER