the paver joint sand suggested in the feb '08 issue of Garden Railroads (atleast the bags I've tested) are highly MAGNETIC.. Found this out the hard way using it on my HO layout last year, fried 3 motors. Granted the track is farther apart and less likely to cause a short but if yer buying engines for 200 to 5k then is this stuff worth it??
As for it setting up hard as concrete, in walkways yes, in the open, not so much, if it gets enough water it goes back to a pliable state again and can then be picked up by the wheels, cause it's a magnet, then into the motors and such.
You can try it if you dare as for me - NOT worth it, been there done that - took it off - now have 3 dummy engines in HO for sale to the highest bidder.. just kidding they look ok on the display shelf - think i'll keep 'em there
Mark
How in the world can sand be magnetic? It's silicon dioxide the base material for glass. Polyurethane is certainly not magnetic. I have used well over a ton of polymeric sand for work and use it on my layout without seeing anything like you have described. I would bet the material you had was contaminated with something else. It would help to know what part of the country you are in. I do remember reading about a garden railroader who got a load of ballast that was magnetic. He was either in the Mid or North West if I recall correctly.
-Brian
i dropped a magnet in the bag and then pick it out, the magnet was covered, and no it was not contaminated. I'm a landscaper. i use poly all the time, tried several bags, all were magnetic. Could it be that the sand has filler in it, goly gee can't there be minerials that are magnetic in the filler or source material?
I'm in Syracuse, NY, most of the paver poly sand that I know of, Unilok or Tech.. I believe is Canadian import.. I'll check a bag tomorrow, I have a couple in my barn
Well ain't that something! I'm also a landscaper (and a former scientist). I went out and tested mine and it's weakly magnetic. It would not stick to a weak magnet (magnetic card type) but it did stick to a large heavy magnet and a small rare earth one. I'm not using it as ballast and I don't know if the motor magnets would be strong enough to attract it over any distance but it is a possible concern. I personally do not know Mr. Munson (the author of the letter, who is also a landscaper) but I do know someone he is working with on another club member's layout. I will get word to him.
This requires further investigation. I looked up the MSDS for Joint-Lock (which I'm pretty sure is the brand I have been using) and it says its just sand and organic binder. Just does not make sense.
http://www.packagepavement.com/msds%20sheets/MSDS%20-%20PPCO%20Joint%20Lock%20Sand%202007%20-%20JL.pdf
Brian,
I am not surprised, I am told, that some gravel being used as ballast on a club members layout was also slightly magnetic. I have not observed this myself. That Polymeric sand has more than silicon dioxide in it, that is for sure. I like my ballast loose so I would not use anything to make my ballast hard. We were spraying crusher fines with that cememt bonding agent. It makes a hard surface but then cracks, and looks terrible. Just stick with the loose gravel.
Paul
Rene Schweitzer
Classic Toy Trains/Garden Railways/Model Railroader
I am still looking for the article in GR, can someone help?
I vote for Brian to send the letter. He knows this kind of stuff because this is his job.
Paul,
It was just a letter sent in by Mr. Munson.
Rene,
I have sent off a couple of emails to Quikrete / Joint Lock hoping to get a bit more info. Hopefully they will respond and I'll email that info to Mark and all.
Thanks Rene, I see it now. I just wasn't looking close enough. I got the tip to use Poly Sand for my roads from Kark Reichembach up in North East MD. It makes great roads and parking lots. But like I have already stated, I don't like hard ballast. So far it has wintered well too.
Paul Bottino aka Camaro1967
The upside to the poly sand is that if ever does "crack" all you have to do is wet it down, smooth it out and it will rebond, I'm planning on using it for some roads and parking lots, however, untill I find one that doent's contain anything either metal or magnetic, it won't go near the tracks !!
TECHNI-SEAL - TECHNICAL DATA SHEET - HP and RG POLYMERIC SANDS for Pavement Joints
This high-tech mix of ASTM C-144 graded sand and the latest generation of polymer bindersprovide effectiveness and optimal durability in all circumstances. It is recommended for paver and slab joints in highlyexposed areas: public ways (often subject to heavy traffic and intensive cleaning), sloped driveways (subject to fast erosion due to runoff), swimming pool decks (frequently soaked), etc. It is also recommended for wide joints and where old joints made of conventional sand are being replaced
Warning: This product contains crystalline silica, which is known to the State of California to cause cancer.
Contains Portland Cement. Avoid contact with the eyes, skin and clothing. Avoid breathing dust. Wash thoroughlyafter handling. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.
Camaro1967 wrote: Thanks Rene, I see it now. I just wasn't looking close enough. I got the tip to use Poly Sand for my roads from Kark Reichembach up in North East MD. It makes great roads and parking lots. But like I have already stated, I don't like hard ballast. So far it has wintered well too.Paul Bottino aka Camaro1967
As you know I have it all over my layout, used as roads and parking lots, not for ballast. I have used it for 5 railroad crossings and have had no problems over the last 2 years. It is in contact with both rails and there has been no problems with any shorts.
I would think that since the electric motors are sealed in enclosed trucks and the truck exteriors have no magnetic pull that I can detect there would be little chance of this product causing any problems. I beleive that in HO the motors are part of the frame and much more exposed.
I have thought of using it on the washout exposed banks of some of my ballast, but have not tried it as yet.
As I see it, it is a very useful product on a garden railroad and would not hesitate to use it.
Karl
I'm still planning on using it for roads and such, but untill the manufacture can say "Yeah go ahead and use it there will be no electrical problems" I won't use it as ballast. Its too fine for prototype anyways.
I was wondering if you could do a 50/50 mix with crusher fines and poly if it would still give you some bonding and strength. I was planning on doing a test plot in the spring, might do it now in the barn if it warms up.
I'm new to G guage so I haven't taken a motor apart yet so I wasn't sure if it could cause problems or not. Was just putting my experience with it out there. And yes the HO engines I have are totally open which is how it got in there.
It is a very usefull product, I just hesitate to use it for ballast around the entire 200 feet of my track!
spookytown rr wrote: Karl I'm still planning on using it for roads and such, but untill the manufacture can say "Yeah go ahead and use it there will be no electrical problems" I won't use it as ballast. Its too fine for prototype anyways.I was wondering if you could do a 50/50 mix with crusher fines and poly if it would still give you some bonding and strength. I was planning on doing a test plot in the spring, might do it now in the barn if it warms up.I'm new to G guage so I haven't taken a motor apart yet so I wasn't sure if it could cause problems or not. Was just putting my experience with it out there. And yes the HO engines I have are totally open which is how it got in there.It is a very usefull product, I just hesitate to use it for ballast around the entire 200 feet of my track!
I don't think I would want to use it with all of my ballast, as I have used about 6 tons ballast on my railroad and that would have been very expensive. I do have some high ballast banks that are subject to washouts and may try sprinkling some over these banks and see if it helps to prevent the washouts. When the weather warms up I will try it in a small area and see if I like the looks of it.
Great Responses Karl. I agree entirely with you, based on my more limited experience with it. Great for roads and parking lots. It winters here in the south of Delaware quite nicely. Very clean on cars. No dirt splashing up on them.
Sorry for misspelling your name above.
I had not noticed that you had mispelled my name. Thats ok its only one letter.
Hope to see you in the spring.
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