Real Paint Issues

[Anonymous]

I'm sure this subject has been beaten around way too much, but I really need some help ..... PLEASE ! Finding a suitable paint is driving me nuts. I've looked over the Airbrush forums and they're way beyond me - "artists", you know, and each one has a very different opinion, but clearly no budget to live on..... 

I use both a bristle brush and an airbrush for effects, but here is my situation :

ENAMELS - I have used enamels for a long time, like them a lot, have good success with coverage, finish, durability, colors, etc. but they're killing me - literally ! When I paint, I can't seem to contain the fumes or the messy solvents for cleanup, and that's bad for my health. Also, enamels are becoming hugely expensive !

ACRYLICS - I hate them, but they're less toxic and easier to clean up, somewhat cheaper, but not of value if I can't use them. I just cannot get decent coverage, they are not "rewettable" so that follow-on coats sometimes just smear or clump up, and they don't stick well at all. I usually look for flat colors, so that's not a big issue, but I would like the choice sometimes. I hear from alleged 'experts' that there are differences between craft acrylics and model acrylics, and I just can't seem to get it straight.

For doing a small spot on a loco, you're not going to prime it, so can anyone give some HONEST input for selecting a workable paint product ? I'd really like to hear what you can offer.

 

 

[Curmudgeon]

Krylon.

NOT Fusion!

All I use.

I heat the can (hot tap water in a sink, or I simply lay it on my electric/oil radiator/heater).

Touch-up, bottle and brush, Floquil.

Flat is Krylon semi-flat clear, NEVER DullCoat.

DullCoat yellows, cracks, and is porous. Water will pass right through it and lift decals.

[Anonymous]

Curmudgeon, eh ?  Good username.  Thanks for the input.

I've used Krylon paints quite a bit for general base coats, and they do a fairly good job, but they're rattle-can enamels, with a huge spray pattern. I needed something pourable / mixable that I can brush on or put into an airbrush. Most recenly, I've resorted to getting cans of Rustoleum from Home Depot, then mixing & thinning for the colors I need. It's reasonably cost effective, but it's also a very messy process.

I know about Floquil also - not a bad paint, but at the cost for those litttle 1/2 or 1 oz. jars, it just isn't economical for me.  

[cabbage]

Well....

I normally use PlastiKote and 4x1 brush for most of the model work. I use Hammerite or bitumenous paint for chassis and other things that get muddy. Otherwise I use whatever spray can primer is available from the supermarket -grey -white -brown....

regards

ralph

I have number of small nieces and nephews and I am used to using paint that is edible(!)

[Southwest Chief]

I really like Scalecoat paint.  Easy to brush paint or airbrush.

It is pricey, but if you go with the 2oz bottle you get a lot more paint for the $ then in those tiny Floquil or Polly Scale bottles.  However, Scalecoat is solvent based and the fumes are somewhat bad.  To combat this I do all of my painting outside.  But if you live in a cold climate this probably wont work so well.  I do most of my painting in the summer anyway so it doesn't matter much.

Of all the paints I've used over the years Scalecoat is #1 followed by Floquil.  Polly Scale I guess would be #3.  My least favorite is Modelflex.  Too thin to brush and clogs up your airbrush quickly.

[Anonymous]

I use a paint booth that the fan is over the object and under fan pulls harmful spray away. You can buy a cheap motor router speed control which with two of them you can get a good nice steady breeze going. My booth is 3/4 ply, motor on top, one on bottom with 2 vents, pull for clean air and other exhause. Remember don't place both vents together, kinda kills the thing of why you have a paint booth. Use filters, me the cheap ones do well and remember to use a very good one for the in flow. I used Floquil and just about all others out there and still have not found what I really like.

Toad

[kstrong]

Depends on what I'm painting. For large areas, I'll use spray paints. I've always been a big fan of Krylon, and recently Valspar's "American Tradition" paints. They spray very smoothly (after warming the can with hot tap water as described above), and dry quickly. I can go from unpainted to primed then painted inside of an hour. It's a very efficient workflow. Touch-up with spray cans is fairly easy--just spray a bit into a small cup and use a very fine brush to apply it to the effected chip. Larger areas can be masked and touched up that way.

Sprays aren't good for everything, though, so most of my equipment is actually painted with the craft acrylics you find at Michaels, Hobby Lobby, etc. (My favorite brand is "Folk Art".) A 2 oz. bottle will run you less than $1, so you can buy an entire rainbow of colors for what it would cost you to buy just a handful of floquil paints. They're very easy to use, and can be thinned with water for even smoother application (and diluted to the point of near transparency for weathering). Keep the paint thick, and it's perfect for dry-brushing.

These acrylics can be airbrushed. You've got to thin them, and it takes a bit of experimentation to get the consistency right. There's a fine line between "perfect" and "water," and it varies from color to color. Someone suggested thinning with Windex instead of water, as it's "softer." I haven't tried that yet, but I'll experiment next time I break out the airbrush. I'd imagine you'd want to use the clear variety of Windex, lest the blue coloring affect the color of the paint. It may be enough to just add a few drops of Windex. Truth be told, I've had good luck just using water, so who knows?

The trick with airbrushing these acrylics is that you need a bit more pressure, and expect to have to clear the brush a bit more often as the larger pigments get in and clog the works. Again, not a huge deal. I'll also use regular outdoor latex house paint, especially for buildings that stay outside. This, too, can be airbrushed with adequate thinning and pressure.

I'm actually not a huge fan of my airbrush, and avoid using it whenever possible. Most of the time, I'll just use brushes to apply the acrylic or latex paints. Most of my models are models of wood equipment, so any brush strokes blend into the grain of the wood rather effectively anyway. It generally takes two, maybe three coats to get an even color, but it's never enough to lose any details.

Some examples:

This loco is the subject of an upcoming 3-part series on painting, which will start with the February issue of Garden Railways. Sprays used for base colors, then followed up with acrylics for details and weathering. 

This is a box car that was painted completely with a brush, using the acrylics mentioned above. With a textured surface, any brush strokes blend in very easily. If you thin the acrylics with a bit of water, there are virtually no brush strokes.

The flat car was sprayed first with Krylon brown primer, then painted with acrylics. Drybrushing was used for the weathering, using the un-thinned acrylics.

The passenger car was done with acrylics through the airbrush. For some reason, I couldn't get the paint to dry evenly when brush painting; something screwy was going on when I thinned it. I think it was the particular paint, because I've not had that trouble on with any other color. Airbrushing took care of it, and gave me a nice, even coat.

Hope this helps.

Later,

K

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info.

Looks like you do good work on your Tuscarora RR - I'm envious.

 Oh well, we all have our fortes, I'm just trying to find out what will help me with mine. I do reasonably well on structures, and backdrop scenery on the walls, and that's where some airbrush work really helps out.

[Ray Dunakin]

Kevin, have you had any problems with those craft acrylics due to UV exposure? I tried some (a different brand -- Delta Ceramcoat) and found that the colors changed and faded badly after just 2-3 months in the sun. Browns, tans, warm grays, all turned sickly shades of blue-gray or green. I wish paint manufacturers would supply some kind of lightfastness rating.

I've gone to using exterior flat latex house paints for anything wooden. I still use Floquil and other specialized hobby paints for certain things, particularly simulating metal. Don't know yet how well it will hold up. I've heard some say that these are not lightfast at all, while others say they've had no such problems.

I've recently experimented a bit with another craft acrylic called Patio Paints by Deco Art. It's supposed to be for both indoor and outdoor use, so hopefully fading discoloration won't be a problem. Haven't used it enough yet to find out for sure.

BTW, I've also had no luck getting any paint to stick to plastic ties. It all ends up cracking and peeling off.

Building models to withstand the rigors of the great outdoors is certainly a challenge! When I first got into this I thought the weather would be hardest on a model, but UV seems to be worse and is more difficult to combat.

[hoofe116]

My paint booth is just 1/4" ply with a sloping open front. It uses a 6 x 6" muffin fan directly behind the spray area. The fan is shielded by a flat aluminum plate which catches a lot of overspray. In front of the fan (the intake side) I use a thickness of blue furnace filter followed by a finer filter of whatever is in one of those furnace filter cartridges. There's a rod across the near front with wire to hang the victim of the moment on, or several of 'em ... all coathangers. It's not vented but since my original-issue lungs are getting more sensitive, I can easily fit a vent pipe on the backside of the motor and probably will one of these days.

Because the box is relatively small and the muffin fan a very energetic one, it sucks 99% of the paint fog into the filters. I checked this with my pipe to verify.

As for paints, I use Floquil, acrylic or krylon in spray cans depending on the job.

Les W.

Les W.

[hoofe116]

My paint booth is just 1/4" ply with a sloping open front. It uses a 6 x 6" muffin fan directly behind the spray area. The fan is shielded by a flat aluminum plate which catches a lot of overspray. In front of the fan (the intake side) I use a thickness of blue furnace filter followed by a finer filter of whatever is in one of those furnace filter cartridges. There's a rod across the near front with wire to hang the victim of the moment on, or several of 'em ... all coathangers. It's not vented but since my original-issue lungs are getting more sensitive, I can easily fit a vent pipe on the backside of the motor and probably will one of these days.

Because the box is relatively small and the muffin fan a very energetic one, it sucks 99% of the paint fog into the filters. I checked this with my pipe to verify.

As for paints, I use Floquil, acrylic or krylon in spray cans depending on the job.

Les W.

 

[kstrong]

Kevin, have you had any problems with those craft acrylics due to UV exposure? I tried some (a different brand -- Delta Ceramcoat) and found that the colors changed and faded badly after just 2-3 months in the sun.

I've not had any noticeable issues with the "Folk-Art" brand, though I've not used it extensively on structures that live permanently outdoors. The one building I know it was used on that's been outside for a few years has shown no noticeable signs of fading, though for the past 2 years that it's been in its current location, it's also been shaded. The UV here in Colorado is quite strong, though, and I've noticed no problems on trim and other parts of buildings that see more sun. It could be the particular colors, too.

Later,

K