Its official, I must be going INSANE! Is anything in scale anymore?

[vsmith]

Is anything really to "scale" anymore or are manufacturers just putting on labels on that have nothing to do with the product?

ACK! Last night I tryed to put an 1:24 sitting figure into a 1:24 die-cast pickup truck. It wouldnt even go past the door. The figure was at least 30% too big. It looks fine in the cabs of various loco's. But I realized the 1:24 truck is what was 30% too small, it looks like a pedal car next to on of my LGB Porters, so I tried putting the 1:24 figure into a 1:18 die cast Jeep and Eureka! It fit fine and looked correct proprtionally. So now I'm faced with a dilema. To continue at 1:24 scale and risk the same scale appearance conflict's or to rethink everything and readjust to 1:22.5 or 1:20.3 where at least the engines dont look like there 12' tall next to an auto.

I need to make this decision before i pick up any new buildings, vehicles or figures, the locos and cars as we all know are pretty generic and will survive the scale revision one way or another.

Is this just a plot to make me so insane I have to chew my way thru the door of my workshop?

Any thoughts or words of wisdom would be most welcome,

Beginning to chew on the door....Vic.

[Anonymous]

Vic,
I think to really get to the root of this problem we have to find the people who modeled or posed for these supposed 1:24 scale figures and measure them. I think if we can find them and conduct extensive interviews then we will be able to sort out this mess.

Another thing to consider is the fact that alot, not all, but alot of the minature figures are in fact real people. Usually homeless people who are kidnapped off the streets, cleaned up and placed in a human shrinking model railroad figure machine. If the settings on the machines are the slightest bit off, then you get figures either too large or too small. The machines are operated by unscrupulous types and I am sure that quality control is not the foremost item on there list. They are only looking at making a quick buck and of course are out looking for more homeless people to clean up and cram into there evil machinces. They know that the appetite of the model railroaders, particularly large scale modelers is unquenchable.

From what I have heard and read on the internet about them, the machines are far from being perfect. These are but a few of the hurdles we must get over before the problems can be fixed.

Have fun.
Peter

[Anonymous]

Dear Vic, Might I suggest a playful vinegarette dressing to enhance the otherwise dry nature of the workshop door? PFD586 has it perfectly right, instead of a "Soylent Green" answer to tripping over bums and the under-employed they have been "reduced".....infact, entire armys from past conflicts can be found in plastic bags hanging in dollar store displays and at one time offered for sale at the back of comic books. Yes Vic, welcome to the "Scale Twilight Zone", where nothing seems quite right..... Okay, time to open the window........

[RhB_HJ]

Vic,[;)]

And here I thought you didn't give a dried fig about minor scale differences. Hmmmmmmmm[:)][:p][}:)][:D]

Cheers

HJ

[bman36]

Hey Vic,
Just 'cause the box says 1:24 does not mean anything.....so sad but true. Ever play with slot cars? Same old problemo' ...same body style of car, two diff. manufacturers, and you guessed it....two diff. sized cars. Why? I have absolutely no idea. Shop like I do. Look at the item and go "Looks like the right size, I'll take it." I think Peter just explained for me why Large Scale people look so weird. It's the reducing machine. Must be done with radiation. Ever look closely at the faces? Yikes! UUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGLLLLLY.....most of them anyway.
Anyhow, how to solve this dilemma? Do your shopping by size...not scale. Best I can offer pal. Sorry that's it. So much for fine scale eh? Smile buddy, tomorrow is another day! Happy RRing! Later eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

The looks on their faces are pure horror!! It might be radiation, but the unsuspecting victims of "the machine" are probably indoctrinated on subjects related to model railroading. Considering they will spend the rest of their minature lives exsisting on a layout of somekind. The N scale and HO people seem to be smiling. They seem to be content with where they are going, its easy to understand. However, the look of pure horror exsists on the Large Scale figures because at the last moment, when the final button is pushed, they realize they are going to a place with no definite scale. They will be forced to drive cars that they won't be able to fit in and will have to go to work and dwell in buildings that are to big or small. They will have to deal with giant insects and will always be subject to nasty chemicals that kill weeds. Therefore, it is no wonder they have that look of pure horror on there faces. If they are lucky, they will end up on the Borracho Railroad. They will be able to drink heavily and continue to live the pathetic lives in which they came from. If they end up on my railway, I think the gnomes would eat them!! Yes Vic, I think you have gone insane and I have hitched a ride with you. Yahoooo!!!
GO PATS!! Goin' to Superbowl 38?!? We hope so!!
Pete

[vsmith]

Hello all,

Well yesterday I picked up a 1:18 57 Chevy Bel Air convertable (it was even painted up with a coating of dust, as if just for me) took that same 1:24 figure and Voila! It fit perfectly behind the wheel! right hieght, arms even reach the wheel correctly. So it wasnt a fluke. I also picked up a 1:20 (so they say) bachmann sitting figure and he's TOO BIG for the 1:18 car, whcih is technically larger scale than the 1:20 (so they say) bachnmann trains.

Sheesh...So this is what i' going to do

Model my scratchbuilt structures at at 1:20.3 or 1:22.5 using 1/2" scale components.

Call my trains 1:20.3 even thought most ar closer to 1:24 scale in reality (dont get me started on what scale Bachmann's 2-6-0 industrial mogul Really is...its 1:24)

and Use 1:18 scale cars and EYEBALL all my figures. No Bachmann 7' giants or 4' USA hobbits.

To: RhB I am fairly flexible when it comes to fudging the scale but this was truely ridiculous! For example I have HLW Macks which are 1:24 scale next to my Bachmann Porter and LGB Porters. Both of which are clearly more on the 1:20.3 side of things. Also on my roster is a kitbashed Arist 0-4-0 switcher which is 1:29 scale, they all looks OK next to each other so I dont worry about it. Its the proportions I'm trying to maintain. but its getting really wierd out there when it comes to selection in narrow gauge.

To Brian, your right, its back to Eyeball Expertice method, as I said in another post "throw away your scales" your in Large Scale now!

To Slick, I prefer a creamy ranch myself!

and To PDF586, that explains why they keep running off the table and trying to kill me in my sleep with Xacto knives. Back into the jar with them all!!! this time i might even poke some air holes in the lid! LOL

Spitting out the splinters, Vic

[grandpopswalt]

Vic,

I recently purchased a beautiful 1:24 scale 37 ford firetruck. It looks ridiculous next to a Bachmann 4-6-0 but looks pretty good next to a Bachmann boxcar or passenger car.

So, this is exactly why God invented rulers. If the figure measures 3" then it's 6' tall in 1:24. And if the car meaures 8" long then it's 16' long. The figure will almost certainly fit behind the wheel with the greatest of ease. Thus it is written and thus it shall be.

Walt

[Anonymous]

Who is measuring the Rulers?.....

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpopswalt

Vic,

I recently purchased a beautiful 1:24 scale 37 ford firetruck. It looks ridiculous next to a Bachmann 4-6-0 but looks pretty good next to a Bachmann boxcar or passenger car.

So, this is exactly why God invented rulers. If the figure measures 3" then it's 6' tall in 1:24. And if the car meaures 8" long then it's 16' long. The figure will almost certainly fit behind the wheel with the greatest of ease. Thus it is written and thus it shall be.

Walt

Hi Walt

Unfortunatly for me, I got a nice 1/24 diecast pick-up truck and a 1/24 figure but it was like trying to stuff Shaquil O'Niel into an Austin Mini-Cooper, not to mention the truck looked puny next to my puny Porters. They're supposed to be 6 to 8 ton engines, I've seen an 8 ton porter and its smaller than most cars, so having a pickup that was smaller than the Porter just was down right odd looking. The 1/18 cars look so much better next to the Porters that I think my decision to bump up the scale to 1/20.3 will be for the best. Luckily I havent got too far along with structures and figures so the scale changes will be seamless.

I personally feel that engines like the 4-6-0 Annie from Bachmann are purposely ambiguous on scale so they could be packaged as narrow or standard gauge engines. Thats why your 1/24 truck would look absolutly correct if the Annie was supposed to be a Standard Guage express engine and really odd if its a narrow guage engine. Couple that with the fact that for 20 years now there have been no NMRA type standards to help set scales in LS. NMRA standards now are largely being ingnored by LS manufacturers. I dont see Aristo retooling thier 1/29 scale "Standard Guage" items to the correct 1/32 scale any time soon. So this is something we just have to work around.

[grandpopswalt]

Vic,

You're absolutely right about the Bachmann engines, they're designed to be anything you need them to be. I model in 1:24 and am commited to using only Bachmann products because I am frugal (people who know me well might even say....cheap). So, here's what I do, I shorten the engines both vertically and horizontally. This not only gets them closer to the proper dimensions but also adds a littlle bit of that narrow guage feel. The cars, both frieght and passenger are O.K. as-is with a few exceptions: the tank cars are a bit too big, so I lower the tank flush with the deck. The bobber is also too large but I haven't found a practical solution to that yet. I cut the center bay out of the hoppers and wind up with a very suitable narrow guage 2 bay hopper. With these simple modifications, the locos and rolling stock co-exist very happily with their automotive cousins in their 1:24 world. And if I take a ruler to any one of these pieces using the 1/2" = 1' rule, most of them pass the plausibility test .

I keep reminding myself that - we're PLAYING with expensive TOYS and the objective is to have FUN. However, when I'm playing trains, I do like to have everything look as real as possible. I also try build in a purpose for all these trains running around the tracks. When it leaves the station and goes around a loop and returns, it has been to distant towns and done serious transportation stuff. That's because the loop is hidden and the train is out of sight, therefore, far, far, away.

Now that I've accepted that all of this is for fun and that these are only well crafted toys, my wonderful brain jumps in and automatically helps me out. It ignores the fact that the loco is only about a 50% acurate representation of the prototype as well as the rails, autos, buildings, etc. It presents me with an image that is completely plausible and for and hour or two I AM running that train through that town.

Have FUN.

Walt

[ironhorseman]

Hey, vsmith, I'm not a garden railroader but the subject line caught my eye. After reading it I'm reminded of a somewhat similar situation I had. My HO scale people are pretty near the same size of the plastic figures that go in my B-17 models. But the B-17 is way too big to go with HO scale. It would not look very good on a layout. But I also discovered that all those die cast toy cars I had as a kid some could fit on an HO scale layout and some could not, even though the scale ratio stamped on the bottom of the die cast metal cars is bigger than 1:87. Some instances they're more real looking than the hollow plastic models I can get at the hobby store.

But don't get rid of your out of scale stuff just yet. Try a little forced perspective. Take your smaller scale sized items and place them at a background point, somewhere where the viewer will never get close. This will give the illusion of greater distance. In my case if I wanted to showcase my B-17 I'd have to put my HO trains in the background and create the illusion that they're far away. It might work for photography, might be a little more challeging on a practical layout. My die cast toy cars my be easier to use, probably in foreground or in junk yard scences or on highways and probably not next to certain buildings or structures or people where'd they look out of scale.

I don't know how to suggest what to do when shopping for stuff that isn't the scale as it says on the box. Go by what's the right size or improvise.

[vsmith]

Hello Ironhorseman

Given that my layout is indoors and no point is more than 4 feet away from view, I dont think a forced perspective will work here. If I was outdoors and could place the pickup at a far point of the layout then, yes, it works great. Indoors its no different than doing HO, everything is up close and personal, so to speak.

I think the main problem is just that manufacturers make whatever fits thier molds then they call them whatever scale is closest. No real regard to "scale".

[Anonymous]

Vsmith, i guess I e-mailed you at a bad time about scale for buildings.

Carpenter matt

[whiterab]

I work in somewhat 1/20.3 and picked up a trick from somewhere of using a credit card. The long side of a credit card is 5 1/2 feet tall in 1/20. Works good on standing figures. It would be a little harder with folded up sitting people - unless you carried a big hammer.

[Anonymous]

On to an even more vexing problem, does anyone know the protocal involved with toilets on Garden railway trains. Many think their is no protocal but I believe they should be at the rear of the carriage. I have a number of Golden Mountain carriages and I am worried sick about this matter. can anyone help.

Reagrds Ian; Kawana Island Tropical Railway

[bman36]

Hey Guys,
I think I can solve this issue...here goes.
SCALE: Thing you weigh yourself with. GUAGE: Depends...add a second word such as "Fuel" and well you have a thing that tells how much fuel you have. There. Now back to my trains. Later eh...Brian.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

On to an even more vexing problem, does anyone know the protocal involved with toilets on Garden railway trains. Many think their is no protocal but I believe they should be at the rear of the carriage. I have a number of Golden Mountain carriages and I am worried sick about this matter. can anyone help.

Reagrds Ian; Kawana Island Tropical Railway

Iandor,

A little more info if you please....

Toilets, in regards too...????

Placement inside a passenger car?

How iwould the car be oriented on a real train?

On a model train does it matter which way the toilet is oriented?

Should your outhouse be visable from the train viewing deck???

[Anonymous]

Dear Smoggy LA.

My problem is that i have anumber of very classy Golden Mountain coaches, which are pulled by my DR Mallet which is a very classy train and i want to do things right by it. Each Coach has ints own toilet and hand basin, you actually have to remove the roof to see them. However each toilet has its own stink pipe which is a hooked looking device a bit like Little Bow Peeps crook on a weathered roof. If I have them to the back they are on the right hand side of the train and I am not sure if this is correct.

I have no hope of seeing the actual train itself as it was in Europe and I am half a world away in Oz. Most of our trains here have the toilet at the rear but on the left hand side of the train . Do you think this is because we drive on the left hand side of the road or because we are in the sourthern hemisphere.

I would be interested to hear what your considered opinion is as I really want to do the right thing.

Ian; in absolutely unpolluted Sunshine Coast.

[Anonymous]

Iandor ! Stop! Which way does the paper roll off? Front or back, Once we get to the crux of this matter, all answers will be revealed........ Where in #ell is that medicine cart and stop annoying the bloody Jello![(-D]

[Anonymous]

Slick, wat is Jello; Ian

[Anonymous]

A sweet gelatine dessert , tends to wiggle violently when threatend..... useful for sculpting comes in multiple colors and flavors..... There's always room for it....My gawd, do you mean to say there is no Jello down under? They never mentioned that ......"Forget it Madge, no Jello, we'll stay home this season"......

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

Dear Smoggy LA.

My problem is that i have anumber of very classy Golden Mountain coaches, which are pulled by my DR Mallet which is a very classy train and i want to do things right by it. Each Coach has ints own toilet and hand basin, you actually have to remove the roof to see them. However each toilet has its own stink pipe which is a hooked looking device a bit like Little Bow Peeps crook on a weathered roof. If I have them to the back they are on the right hand side of the train and I am not sure if this is correct.

I have no hope of seeing the actual train itself as it was in Europe and I am half a world away in Oz. Most of our trains here have the toilet at the rear but on the left hand side of the train . Do you think this is because we drive on the left hand side of the road or because we are in the sourthern hemisphere.

I would be interested to hear what your considered opinion is as I really want to do the right thing.

Ian; in absolutely unpolluted Sunshine Coast.

Back in the days of open vestibule car and no air conditioning I could see why the toilets would be oriented at the rear of the car espacially on German trains, if they were at the front of the car with the breze blowing thru everyone is just one bad Eisbien and Sauwerkraut Plate away from vacating the car ! Bus's today do the same thing.

The advent of mechanical ventilation ment that the toilets could be placed at either end of the car and most American steamliner cars would have a toilet at each end. Toilets would be placed where ever the room was best situated, left or right side.

If your modeling such an earlier type of train than, yes, it would be good practice to orient the toilets to the rear. Of course, trains that went back and forth couldnt chose which end the cars were facing so it didnt matter. In fact many early American Passenger cars had reversable seat backs, IOW the backs on all the coach seats could be moved back or forth depending on which way the train was traveling. In that case the toilets orientation is irrelevent.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by whiterab

I work in somewhat 1/20.3 and picked up a trick from somewhere of using a credit card. The long side of a credit card is 5 1/2 feet tall in 1/20. Works good on standing figures. It would be a little harder with folded up sitting people - unless you carried a big hammer.

I got a scale card which is a clear plastic card (1/32, 1/24, 1/22.5 and 1/20.3 card are avalible) and has a figure at scale printed on it. Very handy when looking for items like figures. I'll be taking mine to the BTS this June.

[Anonymous]

whiterab, 1:20 figures out 5/8 of inch to the foot on the credit card. could somebody give me the supposable breakdown on scale 1:18= of an inch
1:20= of an inch
1:24= of an inch
1:29= of an inch
etc...

Carpenter matt

[whiterab]

In decimal notation one foot in each scale would be;

1/18 = 0.667 inch
1/20.3 = 0.59
1/24 = 0.5
1/29 = 0.4138
1/32 = 0.375

In eighths of an inch;
1/18 = 5.38/8
1/20.3 = 4.7/8
1/24 = 4/8 = 1/2
1/29 = 3.3/8
1/32 = 3/8

One can see why 1/24th is popular.

Hope this helps[:)]

[dandylines]

I look outside at my real car in the driveway then hold up a 1:24 model in my hand. Would you believe, the car in my hand is bigger. What kind of weird perspective is this? What would life be like without scale....imagine that.

[warner brook]

oh! hell why not just enjoy the hobby,don`t worry about it and have fun life is so damned short.[2c][(-D]