I know that most garden railroads consist of G scale but i have a lot of HO scale and i have just recently noticed that they now make nickel silver track. I hear that this track does not rust or corrode is that true? If it is then is it possible to make a garden railroad with HO scale? If i get the answers im hoping for then i will reply with other questions.
Thanks
Ben
Ben,
I have read a few different experiences with the use of nickle silver track outdoors. Some have little cleaning involved with it, some have regular cleaning with it like brass track. I think a lot depends on the exact composition used. The problem with using HO track outdoors would be UV and weather resistance of the ties. Same problem for any rolling stock. Large scale trains are made of UV resistant plastic. There are quite a few folks who lay their own track in HO gauge (and there may be some commercially available) for narrow gauge (15") known as Gn15.
-Brian
Im all new to this so please bare with me.....Whats wrong with UV protection ties? Does it make them fade or weaken or what?
Also when you say cleaning like how often would i need to clean the track (min to max)? Also how would i go about cleaning like going out with a rag and sponge?
Last one for now the wheels that my engines use are they going to be rust/corrosion resistant?
This question has been asked several times over the past year, and the answer always seems to be:
Yes, HO scale can be used outdoors, but it is not going to last very long because none of it is weatherproof. Yes, it is done in Great Britain. Atlas and other brands of HO scale track is not weatherproof or UV resistant, except Peco track, made in England. The sun will cause the crossties to become hard and brittle. Here in Arizona in the summertime, it may even cause the rail to become hot enough to melt the plastic.
If you want to see what can happen, place a plastic boxcar or other piece of rolling stock and a piece of HO scale flextrack outdoors for a couple of months.
Deathwing wrote:Im all new to this so please bare with me.....Whats wrong with UV protection ties? Does it make them fade or weaken or what?Also when you say cleaning like how often would i need to clean the track (min to max)? Also how would i go about cleaning like going out with a rag and sponge? Last one for now the wheels that my engines use are they going to be rust/corrosion resistant?
As said above, the sun makes plastic hard and brittle unless it is overwise treated. Have you ever seen the dashboard of an old car? They used to crack and split like crazy until they came up with better plastics.
Track cleaning is usually done with some type of fine abrasive. Brass track guys usually use a pole sander with fine drywall mesh on it. Many of us also use a track cleaning car with a weighted abrasive pad on the bottom. There is even a track cleaning loco with abrasive wheels on it. Track cleaning frequency can vary from daily to weekly.
Many of the wheels on large scale cars and locos are brass or stainless or some kind of alloy. Few leave their rolling stock out in all weather and will either have a storage facility or a on track barn to park their trains in.
The Home of Articulated Ugliness
We usually don't leave our trains themselves out all the time, and you probably won't have trouble with UV on train cars and locos unless you leave them out all the time. However, you do leave your track out all the time, and unless the ties are "UV Stabilized" they'll quickly crumble.
And what happens if the ties crumble? Why is that so bad? I would not think that the track wouls start moving if it is set in the ground right? Or am i totally wrong on this one?
Also i was not planning on leaving my trains out in the weather i would be building an inclosed loco shed for them. The cars would probably go under a landing or in the house when they are not in use. I was just wondering if they would get ruined being used outside in the everyday weather?
Can you run a train in the rain i know that probably sounds really REALLY stupid but i wouldnt think it would hurt anything. I dont expect the track to short out and the loco should be fine i would think. Im just trying to make sure i ask every question possible so that i dont accidently leave my trains out one night during a storm or one year down the road have to redo all the track.
I'd suggest doing some searches here and on other fora. Yes it can be done; but at what cost of or to durability? A blade of grass won't derail a G loco, but it probably would wreck an HO train! Talk to dave, he's doing O outdoors and has to be a bit careful!
Asking questions is the right thing to do. Armed with the proper answers, you may well be able to pull it off!
The ties are what keep your rail in place. When your ties crumble, your rails start to give way and derailments abound. Large scale track is pretty expensive so we expect it to last a decade or two.
There are a couple of things you can try to give plastic ties some UV protection. You can paint your track with either spray paint or exterior latex. I spray paint my stainless steel track just to improve its looks. I do one piece at a time. I just wipe a bit of oil on the rail head, spray paint it and wipe off the rail heads with an old t shirt. You could also try a ArmorAll type spray with UV protection. Again, you have to clean off the rail head.
Give it a try and let us know how it works and don't forget to post some pics.
It seems that most everyone agrees that using indoor HO track outdoors probably will not work very well for you. If the cross ties crumble, what would be left to keep the rails from shifting around? So yes, if the ties are not UV protected the track probably won't last very long.
It's been a long time since I played around with HO trains but I am somewhat involved with On30 which uses HO track. In my opinion the derailments you'd have outdoors because of uneven track would quickly take all the joy out of running outdoors. As you well know, the slightest misalignment in the track will cause derailments, uncouplings, loss of contact, etc.
Maybe you should do as someone else suggested, make a small loop of track outside where it will be exposed to the sun and the rain and observe what happens over time.
Who knows, you may be the one to find the method to make this work .... give it a try.
Walt
I'm thinking about using a few feet of HO track for my mine spur. Someone else suggested that an HO gondola would come about waist high on a 1:22 scale man which would look about right for an ore car. The ties might be a problem as they wouldn't come close to 1:22 size. Since HO ties are not UV protected I probably should replace them to start with. Any ideas?
Rex
I have been talking with my engineering group about this on the side and we all agree that painting the railing and ties would be by far the easiest and best way of protection against UV. I never even gave UV light a thought at the beginning. Thank you so much for pointing that out. So Altterain (Brian) idea looks like the best so far.
The other problem that has been pointed out would be the derailment due to small particles that are in the way. Well i have not talked to them about this yet but i gave it some thought and decided to test what it takes to knock my trains off the track. These were the results.
1) Grass blade = No
2) Twig = Yes
3) Small peble = No it just got knocked out of the way.
4) Leaf = Yes
Also getting the track to be semi even and level will be challenging but all that takes is time and effort. If i dont rush i dont think that will be a problem.
So in the end grass so long as there is not a pile of it will not bother them. I will have to walk the track before i start to make sure that no leaves or twigs have fallen in the way. Is there any other items that might become a problem?
Also about what Rex wrote most of my track have been sitting in a box for the last 2 years but from what i remember i dont know of anyway of replacing the ties with anything that would be UV resistant. If they can be removed then taking the ties off to paint would be by far the easiest. If they can not pop on and off then as Altterain (Brian) said just wipe off the top of the rails right after they are painted and everything should be just fine.
Depends on the blade of grass, the type of wheelsets (proto H0 flanges?), the ange of the blade.
I've seen things derail Large Scale trains, the more "proto" the flange, the easier to derail.
Visually comparing size of derail to said vehicle, then observing a Half-Zero vehicle, and calculating the ratios, then considering the actual mass and weight of the LS unit compared to the Half-Zero unit, I would not.
I get these Maple Tree "helicopters" this time of year.
Those can knock a LS car off the track.
Brian: I have just been advised O gauge would look best with 45mm track. So ... where does 15" (Gn15) and O meet, visually?
Les
hoofe116 wrote:There are quite a few folks who lay their own track in HO gauge (and there may be some commercially available) for narrow gauge (15") known as Gn15. -Brian Brian: I have just been advised O gauge would look best with 45mm track. So ... where does 15" (Gn15) and O meet, visually?Les
Les,
Gn15 is still "G scale" with 1:22.5 (or there abouts) rolling stock, buildings, figures, etc. It is just running on 15 inch narrow gauge track (primarily small industrial lines with critters). 15 inch track in G is the same width as HO track allowing modelers to use HO power trucks. Its the same for On30 using O scale models running on HO track as 30 inch narrow gauge or the 7/8's (1:13.5) guys who use G gauge track as 24 inch narrow gauge for 7/8n2. I'm not sure how you would use a smaller scale train to run on larger gauge track, though.
Many people say it can be done.
Buildings are easy enough to scale out
People too
Plants may be a bit difficult
Rocks as well.
Seems like switches wouldn't hold out too long.
Just my thoughts
Mark
altterrain wrote: hoofe116 wrote:There are quite a few folks who lay their own track in HO gauge (and there may be some commercially available) for narrow gauge (15") known as Gn15. -Brian Brian: I have just been advised O gauge would look best with 45mm track. So ... where does 15" (Gn15) and O meet, visually?LesLes,Gn15 is still "G scale" with 1:22.5 (or there abouts) rolling stock, buildings, figures, etc. It is just running on 15 inch narrow gauge track (primarily small industrial lines with critters). 15 inch track in G is the same width as HO track allowing modelers to use HO power trucks. Its the same for On30 using O scale models running on HO track as 30 inch narrow gauge or the 7/8's (1:13.5) guys who use G gauge track as 24 inch narrow gauge for 7/8n2. I'm not sure how you would use a smaller scale train to run on larger gauge track, though. -Brian Okay, thanks for taking time to reply.My thoughts on this entire thread are negative, due to the problems I had getting HO to run indoors on flat surface. I too sold all my HO. I like G because, primarily, I can see it and can build stuff. It's heavy, so it ought to hold the track. I (at the moment) want nothing to do with prototypical flanges. I want flanges that'll hold the rails.HO outdoors? For me? Nope. But hey, go for it!The one problem I haven't seen mentioned is big-foot creatures walking on it at night. I have no pets but the neighbors do, and they let them out at night. You wouldn't think of a cat as heavy-footed, but they sure are a nuisance when they congregate to 'congress' in my backyard about 2 a.m. Noisy? Sheesh.Les W.
Okay, thanks for taking time to reply.
My thoughts on this entire thread are negative, due to the problems I had getting HO to run indoors on flat surface. I too sold all my HO. I like G because, primarily, I can see it and can build stuff. It's heavy, so it ought to hold the track. I (at the moment) want nothing to do with prototypical flanges. I want flanges that'll hold the rails.
HO outdoors? For me? Nope. But hey, go for it!
The one problem I haven't seen mentioned is big-foot creatures walking on it at night. I have no pets but the neighbors do, and they let them out at night. You wouldn't think of a cat as heavy-footed, but they sure are a nuisance when they congregate to 'congress' in my backyard about 2 a.m. Noisy? Sheesh.
Les W.
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