electric wire for stringers

[ondrek]

I am finally getting ready to lay track after the 6 yrs of "lets do it next year"....

I want to start digging the trench but before i fill with the crushed stone, I want to burry the electrical wire that will have the stringers supplying power to the tracks every 20 ft.  My question is, what kind of wire is used?  can I use standard electrical wire that is rated for outdoor use from Home Depot?  I have some of that, I am just wondering if that will work out ok.  being burried under the rocks, should it get sealed in a conduit?  I am hoping not.  I am hoping that the standard exterior rated wire will be sufficent alone under the crushed stone.

 

thanks

Kevin 

[ttrigg]

Kevin;

I'm sure that there is an electrician out there that will tell you that I did it wrong, but it works for me and that is all that I care about.  I used automated sprinkler system 7 conductor wire.  Out here in California we have automated watering the lawn and garden.  This wire works for me, have had no problems, 7 conductors gives me the flexibility to power the rails, power 2 switches (turnouts) a pair of isolated "dead" track (on which to park an engine or street car on a siding).  Most any "low voltage" direct buryable wire should do the job nicely. 

[altterrain]

Like Tom said above, most (like me) use low voltage landscape light wire. I use 16 gauge for the the shorter feeders (under 30 feet) and 14 ga. for the longer run. Some folks recommend using 12 ga for all but thats your call. I've run 4 locos on the same loop atthe same time without a problem. I would not use standard underground Romex as that is a solid wire and a stranded wire is better for our needs (its far more flexible).

-Brian 

[cacole]

The stranded electrical wire used for low voltage outdoor lighting is meant to be buried and should last for many years.  Places where it is spliced should be kept above ground.

[two tone]

My only comment to add is I would put it in 15mm round plastic pipe my reason for saying this is if buy accident some one stick a fork or spade in the ground where your cable is buried and shorts it out then you have a job on your hands to repair cable. with plasic conduit its all push to gether so you can spur off ay time you like.   this is just my opinion good luck with you layout  

[ondrek]

Ok, thanks.

I did buy the standard underground Romex from HD I just couldnt remember the name when i posted my question.  I will return it for the landscaping wire.

 So I can use this wire to run along under the tracks, well, next to the tracks, but under some of the crushed stone, and use it also for the stringers?  and where i have the stringers spliced on to the wire running parallel to the track, i should have that splice above the surface?  what if i sealed the splice with that electric wire rubber that goes on in liquid form?

 

Thanks

 

kevin 

[cacole]

 

what if i sealed the splice with that electric wire rubber that goes on in liquid form?

That liquid electrical tape leaves an extremely thin coating on the wire that would not be weatherproof.  The reason I said the splices should be above ground is to keep water from shorting them out.

Several years ago I buried some electrical wire that has a splice in it.  I thought I had made it watertight by putting the splice inside a plastic box that was filled with rubberized roofing sealant.  Water eventually seeped in and shorted out the connection, even in the desert climate.

[pimanjc]

Malibu Low voltage lighting wire has worked for me.  Bulk rolls can be bought at WalMart and other sources very cheaply.

JimC.

[ttrigg]

My only comment to add is I would put it in 15mm round plastic pipe my reason for saying this is if buy accident some one stick a fork or spade in the ground where your cable is buried and shorts it out then you have a job on your hands to repair cable. with plasic conduit its all push to gether so you can spur off ay time you like.   this is just my opinion good luck with you layout 

When placing the wiring under the sub-roadbed as Kevin has said he is doing there should be no danger of cutting the wire with a shovel as one would need to jam the shovel through the track as well.

[altterrain]

I have all my connections underground but I use the goo filled wire nuts made for underground connections. The ones at my home depot are blue and found in the electric aisle or near the landscape lights. They come in two different sizes. I will bundle the wires with the stripped ends, wrap the wires (not the ends) with a bit of vinyl electrical tape, twist the ends, put the wire nut on and then give it a final wrap with the electrical tape to stop the wire nut from slipping off later. I have not had a problem yet even with 13 inches of rain in two days last year.

-Brian 

[ondrek]

Brian-

 

thanks-

I will look for those

 

Kevin

 

[Capt Bob Johnson]

I too thought those silicone filled wire nuts would be ideal for our uses; I was wrong!  I've had nothing but trouble with them and had to replace them.   Every one I've disassembled has shown water discoloration or complete dissolution of the wire.

I've gone to using a bell splice, taping it, coating with a heavier liquid tape, letting that dry, then taping again, with a final coat of liquid tape.   This has proven very satisfactory to me!  Where I've had to undo one of those joints I haven't seen the wire discoloration that indicates either water or air infiltration.   I get the heavy liquid tape from micro mark.   Works well on sealing the plug from waterfall pump to extention cord in 110V application also!   5 years doing good on that one and it gets submerged every rainstorm!

[ttrigg]

When using "malibu wire" you could use the "malibu spike power taps." just crimp it onto the wire and a spike is driven through the malibu wire and contact is made with the spike. I've used these for over ten years and never had a problem with corrosion underground. The spike taps have about a 12 inch lead that hooks to the light, but could easily connect to the rails.

[ondrek]

Well, I have re-thought my design with the wire. 

The layout is designed to go around the edge of the yard so we can continue to use the middle of the yard for other things.  there will be some landscaping ties down on the ground that will keep the edge between grass and train area crisp.  So what I have devised is to run the electrical wire along the edge of the landscaping ties.  this way it will all be kept above ground for good maintenance.  i will then have the feeders spliced off the runner wire above ground, dip down under ground and then attached to the rails.    I came up with this idea as I am too lazy to dig up some of the crushed stone that I put down last week before I rememberd to get the electrical wire in there 1st.

 

Kevin 

[markperr]

Well, Kevin, you beat me to the punch.  I was going to suggest that if you insist on burying the cable, that you bury it alongside the tracks for easier access as you would never be able to get at it without major disruption should you bury it beneath the tracks.

Also, feeders every 20 feet might be a little overkill.  YOu could probably double that distance safely, but hey, that's just my opinion and not based on any scientific or engineering specs.

I believe that you should be able to buy special splices for Malibu lights that you can use as connections to the track which need only be pressed together to make contact with the wire.  This will help reduce the amount of exposed wire you have.  If you can't find the splices and must use conventional methods, I'd suggest soldering the splice junction.  The wire that is exposed WILL ABSOLUTELY start to corrode immediately and you will have problems down the road.

Mark

 

 

[ondrek]

here is a diagram of my thought

 

 

 

an outdated but still semi legitamate layout design that I am striving for is here:

Remember, the outside edge of the layout is the garden area, the center of the layout is to remain useable yard. 

 

 

[Dick Friedman]

I've used malibu light cable since 2003 with no problems.  I tried not to cut it, just cleared a small part of the wire to put under clamp screws.  I left most of it in the dirt, but did run a 20+ foot section in plastic water pipe.  I pulled a loop out of the pipe using a plastic tee and a short extension.

For splices I've discoverd "suitcase" connectors as often found in automobile wiring.  I had to search for the larger size (blue), but they work pretty well.  Be sure to press the sides as well as the top when assembling the wiring loom.  If you want, you can tape them after assembly, but I've only done that on a few that get watered regularly.  The others I'll probably do if they fail! 

[cacole]

ondrek,

I think keeping the wiring above ground and beside the track instead of buried under it is a very wise move.  Remember Murphy's law -- Electrical wiring will always develop a short or open circuit in the most inaccessible location.

 

[ondrek]

that was my exact thought when I decided to just tuck the wire right up against the landscaping tie.  its accessable, but still pretty much out of sight.  i might burry it under some mulch, but thats it.

 

Now all i need to get is more than 1hr of continuois time to actually begin work on this layout.

anyone know where one can purchase time?  I need a good discount, tell me you know somebody.

 

Kevin 

[dougdagrump]

The stranded electrical wire used for low voltage outdoor lighting is meant to be buried and should last for many years.  Places where it is spliced should be kept above ground.

Except in my yard where these gophers like to eat them. No such luck that they would eat both sides and maybe get a little sprinkler induced shock, they will only eat one side, wire and all. This week they ate about a four inch strip, must be on a diet though because last year it was about a six inch strip.