Terrible two's

2240 views
41 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Terrible two's
Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, April 20, 2019 7:46 PM

 I don't know if anyone else does this :

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, April 20, 2019 7:49 PM

When I like something, I tend to buy it twice.

 

 

 So, I have 2 Lionel turbines, 2 Lionel 2025's, and today I bought a second 2035

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, April 20, 2019 7:53 PM

She is really clean cosmetically, with just one missing marker lamp

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, April 20, 2019 7:57 PM

She is very free rolling, but will need all the usual servicing:

 

 cleaning, brushes, tender pick up wires, etc...

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,568 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:59 PM

No I wouldn't do anything like that. Let's see I have 

five 224E's 

three 2359

Three 262's

two 259's

three 736's

three 675's 

Three PA-1 NYC 

Three PB-1 NYC 

Should I go on? lol

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: US
  • 5,039 posts
Posted by cheapclassics on Saturday, April 20, 2019 9:28 PM

Good evening all,

Well, I do have two 384E, one is a Lionel Classic and the other is a MTH.

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, April 20, 2019 11:05 PM

Thank you, guys !

 I guess I'm in great company, and I will consider this affirmation that this behavior is normal !

I just realized how many times I've bought the same engine twice, I guess I enjoyed it so much the first time !

Happy Easter !

Paul

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,568 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Saturday, April 20, 2019 11:42 PM

Happy easter to you too, Yes it is very normal. 

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 2,295 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, April 21, 2019 8:37 AM

Nothing wrong with doubling-up Paul, if it's something you like.

After all, they ain't makin' any more of 'em.

And Happy Easter everyone!

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 291 posts
Posted by teledoc on Sunday, April 21, 2019 8:39 AM

I’m in a different position, with Prewar multiples.  I have 18 “Torpedo” 1688’s.  The major reason is they are all different castings, from 1936-1942.  No two are alike in the external castings, plus there were three distinct motors used during their production.  An article reprint on the forum, in Timeless Classics, ran an article about the first issued 1688E, that had forward facing cab windows, unlike the rest of production.  While searching to locate this elusive version, I noticed way more variations, than most people knew existed.  I have every variation made.  There has to be something wrong with my thinking. LOL.

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 9:33 AM

It sounds like I've hit a nerve with this thread !

Laughwe all must be suffering from the same affliction...

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 10:48 AM

Teledoc,

 can you tell me anything about this 1688 ?

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 10:51 AM

My research has come up with '39 production. She only has a number plate on the left side.

 Paul

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • From: Ohio Valley
  • 679 posts
Posted by LL675 on Sunday, April 21, 2019 11:49 AM

well the first Lionel steamer I bought for myself was a 675 with the Baldwin drivers.....then I got a later one with the sintered drivers....couple years ago at a show a guy had a box of parts that was a 2025 and a 2035. It took about 20 minutes to have them together enough to run again. The 2025 just needs a trailing truck to be complete, picked up a 675 truck at the last show. Right before that I piced up a 2025 shell....My second steamer I got was a 671 becaue I grew up watching my Uncle's 2020 going around my Grandparents Christmas Tree....a few years ago I inheateted that 2020 when my Uncle passed. I had put a 224E together for myself, no I also have my Uncle's 224E.

Dave

It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody  from Toy Story)

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 291 posts
Posted by teledoc on Sunday, April 21, 2019 2:39 PM

Paul, I put the year of production in the 1937-39 range, and from my original listings, it would be my #15.  The motor is what I call the Type I motor, mounted through the running boards, just in front of the cab.  The drivers are 12 spoke, and the tag on the motor says Lionel 027.  The earliest 1936 issues, had the same style motor, but the drivers were only 8 spoke, with motor tagged "Lionel Jr.", which was a holdover from earlier 4 wheel Junior line motors. The number tag is 1688, versus the earlier 1688E tags, but yours should have tags on both sides.  The key to it being closer to the 1939 range, is the countersink hole on top of the loco, just forward of the cab, which is how the 1668 six wheel motors were mounted. The 1588 Clockwork, 1668/1668E, & the 1688/1688E all used the same basic mold, with minor modifications, throughout their production.  The 1588 was 0-4-0, the 1688/E were 2-4-2, and the 1668 was a 2-6-2 arrangement.  The 1688/1688E used three distinct motors, with first one having horizontal wing extension, that mounted the motor through the running boards, (Type I). The second motor was one of the versions used in a 1664 loco, which used a single 2 1/4" lateral screw, through the body, back near the cab, which is a (Type II), and the last version was identical to the Postwar 1654 motor, which used two lateral screws through the body, making that the (Type III).  There are other body mold modifications that were made, from the early 1936 to 1942 version. ALL 1936 issued 1688/E were thin castings, and had an open cab without firebox doors, and all had "Lionel Jr." motors, with 8 spoke drivers.  In 1937, Lionel made the transition to "Lionel 027" motors, with 12 spoke drivers, and were now the Thick Casting, and the cabs now had firebox doors.  I would guess that 98-99% of people think that all the 1688's are common, with the exception of the very first issue that had open forward facing cab windows.  Oh how wrong they are. The 1588 has three versions, the 1688 has 18 versions, and the 1668 has six versions, all different from each other.  

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,568 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Sunday, April 21, 2019 2:39 PM

Dave to my knowledge there is 5 different 675, which I have 3 of. Theres a version with alunimum smoke stack, and one with a black smoke stack, ( 2-6-2 ) 1947 - 1949. Then ther was another version ( 2-6-4 ) 1952. I don't have acess to them right now to state which wheels they have. I really need to pull mine out and figure which ones I actually have. 

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 4:00 PM

Teledoc,

thank you, sir !

Very informative, never realized so many variations. Mine is a little rough shape, but glad to have it. Had to rebuild the E unit, but it runs great now, a little too great... gotta watch my speed on the curves!

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 4:08 PM

Service complete !

new motor brushes

tender pick up wires

whistle brushes

running well, 

whistlin loud and proud !

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 291 posts
Posted by teledoc on Sunday, April 21, 2019 4:14 PM

Paul,  My main forum that I use is Model Train Forum, (MTF), where I did a complete write-up about the infamous Raymond Loewy “Torpedoes”, which explains all the variations of the three locos,(1588/1668/1688).  It is listed in the Tinplate section, in that Forum.  My research on these, will be added to the next book, that Bruce Greenberg, will be publishing in 2020.  He did a new edition, covering Standard & 2 7/8” Trains, 1901-1929, back in 2015.  His next edition covers 1930-1942, in 0 & 00 gauges.  I met Bruce last October at York, where he photographed, some of my major variations of the 1688/E.  He got quite an education about the “Torpedoes”, to say the least.

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 5:17 PM

Teledoc,

thanks again ! I'll look forward to reading your work !

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere that there is a variation of 1688 with the number plate only on the left side ? I felt like mine was missing the plate until I read that. Have you come across this at all ?

Paul

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 5:22 PM

LL675

well the first Lionel steamer I bought for myself was a 675 with the Baldwin drivers.....then I got a later one with the sintered drivers....couple years ago at a show a guy had a box of parts that was a 2025 and a 2035. It took about 20 minutes to have them together enough to run again. The 2025 just needs a trailing truck to be complete, picked up a 675 truck at the last show. Right before that I piced up a 2025 shell....My second steamer I got was a 671 becaue I grew up watching my Uncle's 2020 going around my Grandparents Christmas Tree....a few years ago I inheateted that 2020 when my Uncle passed. I had put a 224E together for myself, no I also have my Uncle's 224E.

 

What a great collection ! The 675,2025,2035 engines are really nice. 

I like to have a lot of engines, and rotate them periodically to give them a break. Distribute the load...

Paul

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 291 posts
Posted by teledoc on Sunday, April 21, 2019 5:38 PM

Yes on a single number plate 1688E, of 1936 vintage, with Thin casting, open firebox wall.  The 1936 versions are ALL thin casting, without the firebox wall.  Motors are tagged Lionel Jr., 8 spoked drivers.  There is a 3/4” square raised area on the cab roof, and also what simulates a “Winged Keystone“ just below the smoke stack, above the headlight.  These are only unique to 1936 issues.  Due to thin castings, which made the shells easy to break, they modified the molds, and created the Thick castings, and added the Firebox doors inside the cab.  The Single tagged, also came in the 1668 six wheeled loco, with the nameplate only on the left side.  There are no slots or indentation to put the second tag on the body.  I figured out a logical reason that created the single tagged bodies.

The 1689E Commodore Vanderbilt loco comes in two body versions, which were made in 1936 & 1937 only.  The 1936 version only came in BLACK, and did not have Marker lights, nor the holes to mount them. The 1937 issue had marker lights, and came in both Black or Gunmetal Gray.  I have both the ‘36 & ‘37 issues of the 1689E.

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 5:56 PM

Thank you for this !

 Well, this means that I AM missing a number plate after all...

Paul

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 291 posts
Posted by teledoc on Sunday, April 21, 2019 6:09 PM

The number plates available now, are stick on plates, without tabs, which most suppliers have available.  There was a reprint article from Feb. 18, 2015 under “Timeless Classics”, originally written in Sept. 2005 issue, by John A. grams, discussing ‘Lionel’s Torpedo Streamlined Locomotives’, which started my search, for the one unique version, with the Open Cab Windows.  I started searching, and found my first one in about a month.  I now own 6 of that version, and I know that there are at least 26 more, that have been sold on eBay.  During my searches, I would see one version, than th next one I saw didn’t look like the first, and so on.  During a 2 year period, I studied, and bought most of the variations.  I know every single nuance, of all three locos, (1588/1688/1668), and I can usually identify a version, by a few photos, without having it in my hands.

If you get a chance, check out (Modeltrainforum.com), and snoop around the 0 & Tinplate sections.  I am a Moderator on that forum, which is where I hang out 99% of the time.  My biggest gripe with this forum is the multi step 3rd party requirement to post photos.  Too time consuming, and a complete turn off for me.  It’s just my thought.

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: Parma Heights Ohio
  • 2,988 posts
Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, April 21, 2019 6:15 PM

I can top it all.  I can lay there on the floor running my 2035 and somehow still think "I really need to add one of those to my collection."  Wink  I must be schitzophrenic or something...

Big Smile  I'm Cuckoo For Choo Choo Stuffs!  Big Smile

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 6:47 PM

Teledoc,

I'm glad I asked !

This has cleared up a lot of questions about the 1688.

I'll be sure to look at the MTF, as well.

Paul

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 6:54 PM

Penny Trains

I can top it all.  I can lay there on the floor running my 2035 and somehow still think "I really need to add one of those to my collection."  Wink  I must be schitzophrenic or something...

 

I'd like to say this is the last train I'll ever buy ( because I have so many).

But, could I ever be able to live up to THAT!!!

ClownPaul

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,568 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Sunday, April 21, 2019 8:10 PM

You know your in trouble when you buy a set of trains for one item and thinking you can sell the rest and at least get 3/4 of your money back. Whistling

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 1,317 posts
Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, April 21, 2019 10:56 PM

rtraincollector

You know your in trouble when you buy a set of trains for one item and thinking you can sell the rest and at least get 3/4 of your money back. Whistling

 

I know how this story ends :

 

you wind up keeping the whole set anyway.

 

Please don't ask me how I know this....

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,568 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 8:17 AM

Or you buy a set just to resell it as the seller had it listed on a buyit now price of about 1/2 of what it will sell for. 

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER

Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month