Sorry but I am done Lionel!

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KRM
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Sorry but I am done Lionel!
Posted by KRM on Thursday, November 15, 2018 6:41 PM

So on 2-3-2018 I ordered a BNSF TIER 4 LC SET from Charles Ro. It was to be delivered in Oct of this year. Just in time for the granddaughters birthday on 11-8-18. Nope they changed delivered date to 12-10-18 delivery,,,okay I will give it to her for Christmas,,,,,,,,,,,,,NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now it shows 1-10-19 for delivery,,,Yeah Right! Sorry Lionel but I am done ordering what you can't deliver!

 Sorry to Charls Ro, Not your falt you are working with a F grade supplier. Or is it? Huh?

 

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Posted by phrankenstign on Thursday, November 15, 2018 7:49 PM

I think you have every right to be angry.

Your case clearly demonstrates the importance of manufacturers adhering to their own specified delivery dates.

Most toy manufacturers depend on the increased demand for their products at the end of the year during the holiday season.  To blow their deadlines past Christmas is unacceptable.  What is a buyer supposed to do.......pay for whatever item was ordered and put a copy of the sales receipt in an envelope under the tree?  Yes.  There's nothing kids love more than opening an envelope they can stare at while all the other kids enjoy playing and/or using their actual gifts.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, November 15, 2018 8:58 PM

Here's the problem.  Lionel is not a manufacturer any more, they're an importer.

Yes, they do make some of the theme boxcars here in the US but that's more the exception than the rule.  When you're an importer you're at the mercy of your supplier.  If they're late, or don't have the sense of urgency you'd like them to have there's nothing you can do about it except apologize to your customers and live with the black eye.

We've gone through this "Made in China vs. made in the USA" often enough in the past so I won't start it all over again. The point's been made.

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Posted by rtraincollector on Thursday, November 15, 2018 9:06 PM

Kenin this is the reason I refuse to buy anything BTO. I don't care if it's Lionel, MTH, or who ever. If I can't buy it and have it shipped the next business day or two. I don't want it. 

I feel for you, as this is not right, but as Firelock put it, it's really out of Lionels hands. 

 

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Posted by anjdevil2 on Friday, November 16, 2018 10:10 AM

Anything that comes out of a new catalog is subject to delays due to shipping/weather/supplier/availability and demand.

This I found out when I was ordering my LC Blue Comet.  It was delayed several months before it finally showed.

The lesson learned is this: Wait until it is stocked at the LHS or on line store. The wish book is exactly that, a wish book.

And I wouldn't say that this is a Lionel only issue, as I have seen similar from MTH and especially Atlas.

 

 

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Posted by sir james I on Friday, November 16, 2018 12:26 PM

Kev I understand what your saying BUT ALL the companys have this problem. Never rely on their announced delivery date. The only chance you have is when the store says they have it in stock. 

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Posted by LittleTommy on Friday, November 16, 2018 1:04 PM

I can't think of the sales that they have lost, because, whenever my kids ask me what I want for birthday, Christmas, etc, they have stopped ordering because nothing is available at a given date.

Items are either not yet available OR the supplier that they try to order them from is "sold out."  If they were sophisticated buyers, they would know that if supplier X is sold out, supplier Y might still have the item, but they are not wise in the ways of toy trains, and they do not want to give me a gift certificate, they want something that they can wrap and give to me.  

I am far more frugal than my kids.  If left to my own devices, I might spend $100 on myself for Christmas, whereas my kids would spend at least $500.  

The upside is that they buy me beer instead!  

Could be worse!

LittleTommy

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Posted by phrankenstign on Friday, November 16, 2018 8:13 PM

You can always buy new old stock Lionel items.  You may just have to get by without any warranties, though.

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Posted by KRM on Saturday, November 17, 2018 8:44 AM

Canceled the Charles Ro order yesterday so will have to figure out something else for the Christmas gift.

 I do understand SJ but just because they all do it that don't make it right. I am thinking maybe Lionel is doing it so they can raise the cost when they do come in to cover the new tariff cost??

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Posted by rtraincollector on Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:28 AM

Kevin that woudn't make sense if you paid already they can't make you pay more once it comes in, or if yu just put a deposite on a set price they can't come back and raise the price. 

Lionel has nothing to do with the delay. Your blaming the wrong company. The problem comes with the ones actually making the product. 

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Posted by sir james I on Saturday, November 17, 2018 11:35 AM

They don't delay because they want too, like RT said the delay is in China and the cargo ships. You want to see delays try Atlas now that IS their fault.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, November 17, 2018 11:57 AM

Looking for a Lionel set and need it fast?  Go to www.grzyboskitrains.com

The've got lots, including conventional tubular track sets priced very reasonably.

That's what I'd do.

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Saturday, November 17, 2018 12:26 PM

rtraincollector

Kevin that woudn't make sense if you paid already they can't make you pay more once it comes in, or if yu just put a deposite on a set price they can't come back and raise the price. 

Lionel has nothing to do with the delay. Your blaming the wrong company. The problem comes with the ones actually making the product. 

 

RT, Charles Ro does not charge you till it is shipped. So that would of not been the issue for me,,,but. They can sure rase the price anytime they want on the sets people ordered and then gave up on after a 11 month wait because at that point it becomes inventory.

Lionel has everything to do with the delay. Their picked supplier = their problem! Simple as that! Can't any blame China or the boat it is coming on. In the end the fault falls to Lionel. They made the deals and the delivery dates that got them in this mess.

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KRM
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Posted by KRM on Saturday, November 17, 2018 12:27 PM

Firelock76

Looking for a Lionel set and need it fast?  Go to www.grzyboskitrains.com

The've got lots, including conventional tubular track sets priced very reasonably.

That's what I'd do.

 

Not this one: 

Lionel #6-84732 BNSF Tier 4 Lionchief Set w/Bluetooth

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Posted by rtraincollector on Saturday, November 17, 2018 12:41 PM

Kev you can go on blaming the wrong company all you want, but Lionel has nothing to do with the shipping of the items. Or the building of the items. The only time it comes to play is when they do a BTO and don't get enough orders to warrant the building of the item, then they have two choice, completely cancle the item or extend the open time to BTO and see if they get enough orders. 

You going to tell me the whole time you worked at Cat that they never had a delay on a item because of a part not being delievered to build the item. Well Lionel can not distrubute an item untill it gets to the U.S. They do not have any idea when an item will really get here. Any more than you do. There given an estimate time an item will be delievered but that is all. So they go by that. Yes your mad because the item you wanted, was delayed. I understand that but you need to look at this as who really at fault. once Lionel gives the order to buils 15,000 of something. It's out of there hands when it will come in other than what they are told to be a expectant date

I just looked at there shipping schedule and I do not see anything after Dec 2018 

Kev I guess you blame xyz company when the package gets mis sent in the mail to. Same princeple. They have no control over the shipping of the item, once it is shipped. 

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KRM
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Posted by KRM on Saturday, November 17, 2018 1:57 PM

rtraincollector

Kev you can go on blaming the wrong company all you want, but Lionel has nothing to do with the shipping of the items. Or the building of the items. The only time it comes to play is when they do a BTO and don't get enough orders to warrant the building of the item, then they have two choice, completely cancle the item or extend the open time to BTO and see if they get enough orders. 

You going to tell me the whole time you worked at Cat that they never had a delay on a item because of a part not being delievered to build the item. Well Lionel can not distrubute an item untill it gets to the U.S. They do not have any idea when an item will really get here. Any more than you do. There given an estimate time an item will be delievered but that is all. So they go by that. Yes your mad because the item you wanted, was delayed. I understand that but you need to look at this as who really at fault. once Lionel gives the order to buils 15,000 of something. It's out of there hands when it will come in other than what they are told to be a expectant date

I just looked at there shipping schedule and I do not see anything after Dec 2018 

Kev I guess you blame xyz company when the package gets mis sent in the mail to. Same princeple. They have no control over the shipping of the item, once it is shipped. 

 

To answer your question if there is one there. At Cat sure we missed deliveries but we never blamed our suppliers because they were "our" suppliers in house or third party good or bad. It always fell to Cat to make good on a delivery of a prime product.  As for the rest of the trolling rant.
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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, November 17, 2018 2:07 PM

KRM
 
Firelock76

Looking for a Lionel set and need it fast?  Go to www.grzyboskitrains.com

The've got lots, including conventional tubular track sets priced very reasonably.

That's what I'd do.

 

 

 

Not this one: 

Lionel #6-84732 BNSF Tier 4 Lionchief Set w/Bluetooth

 

Not saying they do bro, but look at it this way.  How old's your grandaughter?

If she's a typical child, say 10 years old or younger she won't care what kind of a train set she gets from Grandpa, it'll be the thrill of the gift and who she gets it from that'll be important.  Hey, two years ago I gave an eight year old grand-nephew of mine a Lionel conventionally controlled train set with no exotic features and he was thrilled to get it.  He's ten now and still having a ball with it.

Certainly you know your situation far better than I do, but it seems to me you have to go with what's available.  No disrespect or condescention intended, just sayin', you know?

Look, I don't like the situation we're in of all this manufacturing of everything from toy trains to kitchen sinks being outsourced to China and never have liked it. I always thought it was dangerous and was apprehensive about the long-term implications.  I avoided buying Chinese made products for as long as I could but now it's bloody near impossible to do so.  I understand why it happened but a discussion of that would turn this topic political and I'm not going to go there.  The thing is this is the world we live in now and it's not likely to change in the immediate future.  We just have to live with it and make the best of it we can. 

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Posted by KRM on Saturday, November 17, 2018 2:19 PM

Thanks Firelock. Your right. She picked it from the catalog because she liked the look of the BNSF engine but at 13 years old I bet there is of plenty of other more girl things she would rather have anyway.  Like $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 

At the end of the day it is what it is. I just won't do this pre-order ever again after two times in two years with the same results.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, November 17, 2018 2:29 PM

Anytime Kev, anytime.

Wow, she's 13?  She just might be thinking about other things than O gauge trains at this point, but maybe that's too scary to contemplate?  It'd sure scare me!

Wayne

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Posted by KRM on Saturday, November 17, 2018 5:36 PM

Firelock76

Anytime Kev, anytime.

Wow, she's 13?  She just might be thinking about other things than O gauge trains at this point, but maybe that's too scary to contemplate?  It'd sure scare me!

Wayne

 

 

Good point Wayne!!  Surprise

As for the point of this post,,,best I can sum it up is, burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. Like I said,,,Sorry but I am done Lionel!.

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Posted by Dave45681 on Saturday, November 17, 2018 5:42 PM

I'm sorry this affected your desired gift, but I am amazed this hasen't happened to you before (you seem legitimately shocked and surprised).  (seeing your forum join date and TCA number years, it's not like you picked up your first catalog in January and decided to order something)

This isn't by any means a new situation.  It's like clockwork, actually.  You see a certain ship date for every item when the catalog comes out, orders are due in, the dates then generally slip at least once right after the orders are due to dealers, and then maybe additionally as time progresses.

It's not ideal, especially for gift giving, but it's hardly new.

-Dave

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Posted by KRM on Saturday, November 17, 2018 6:39 PM

Dave, please read the posts. This is not the first time for this. Just not going to go there again. last time it was a year wait before I gave up on the order, 4 months past the advertised delivery date.

As I said.

As for the point of this post,,,best I can sum it up is, burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. Like I said,,,Sorry but I am done Lionel!. No more pre-orders for me.

 

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Posted by Dave45681 on Saturday, November 17, 2018 7:06 PM

I did read the posts, every last one of them. (no reading comprehension problems here ;) )

The unfortunate thing is you tried to get a youngster interested in the trains, but unfortunately the current business model does not support a normal child or young adolescent's attention span.

For an adult to wait a year or more for something, not cool, but will get over it.  For a kid, it's too much of a large chunk of time in their lifetime (ours too, we are just conditoned for it) to maintain interest.

The unfortunate thing is the only way to really deal with it is not show kids the catalogs and just take them to the store and pick what may actually be in stock as a gift.  Which in today's pre-order/BTO/ (or whatever the term is this year) is not a good thing, as a lot of the interesting items will be sold out once they are released and a few people who hadn't ordered them learn they are a nice item.

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, November 17, 2018 7:21 PM

The current business model barely supports my attention span, and I'm 65!

To say nothing of the wallet...

Which is probably why I'm getting into post-war.  And at at least I can fix 'em if they go bad.

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Posted by rtraincollector on Saturday, November 17, 2018 7:37 PM

Dave45681

I did read the posts, every last one of them. (no reading comprehension problems here ;) )

The unfortunate thing is you tried to get a youngster interested in the trains, but unfortunately the current business model does not support a normal child or young adolescent's attention span.

For an adult to wait a year or more for something, not cool, but will get over it.  For a kid, it's too much of a large chunk of time in their lifetime (ours too, we are just conditoned for it) to maintain interest.

The unfortunate thing is the only way to really deal with it is not show kids the catalogs and just take them to the store and pick what may actually be in stock as a gift.  Which in today's pre-order/BTO/ (or whatever the term is this year) is not a good thing, as a lot of the interesting items will be sold out once they are released and a few people who hadn't ordered them learn they are a nice item.

Dave you hit the nail on the head The problem is, you have to many that don't mind waiting a year ++ to get a engine they want. They fell right into Lionel,MTH,Atlas etc hands. If folks would stop ordering BTO, they would then start to bring stuff back to the retailer so the customer can make a good decision. And from what I have heard getting them repaired is even worst as after a year or so they do not have the parts, as they order x amount over the BTO to diesec for parts and thats it ( the manurfactures. ) 

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Posted by Banks on Saturday, November 17, 2018 7:42 PM

My newest train is 30 years old. That said Lionel can blame suppliers but I didn't order from the supplier it was ordered from Lionel. They need to hold the supplier feet to the fire. Lower the payment x amount each week the item is late. During my years in construction the customer didn't care why it was late ultimately it was my fault if completion date wasn't made.

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Posted by JoeD1981 on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:12 PM

And this is a picture perfect example of what is wrong with Lionel, or I should say the 'entity' that uses Lionel's name.  No control, no building, no blame.  I never thought I'd hear myself say I can't wait for the day Mike Wolf makes packages that say "Lionel, By MTH."

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 5:48 PM

JoeD1981

And this is a picture perfect example of what is wrong with Lionel, or I should say the 'entity' that uses Lionel's name.  No control, no building, no blame.  I never thought I'd hear myself say I can't wait for the day Mike Wolf makes packages that say "Lionel, By MTH."

 

 

I'm a great admirer of Mike Wolf, but remember Mike's products are made in China as well.

I think Mike's advantage is in a very real sense he grew up in the business, starting with Jerry Williams when he was 12 or 13.  The people running Lionel now?  Who knows?  They're strangers to us.  Possibly the latest iteration of the MBA-holding "interchangeable executive" who, in theory anyway, can jump from one business to the next and run it sucessfully without a basic understanding of that business.  I don't buy into that theory myself.

Mike probably understands who he's dealing with better than the Lionel crowd does, which is most likely why he doesn't seem to promise what he can't deliver within a reasonable amount of time.  He certainly hasn't gone the "BTO" route.

I realize not all will agree with me, and that's fine.  As far as I'm concerned Mike Wolf is the closest thing we've got nowadays to Joshua Lionel Cowan or A.C. Gilbert.

 

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Posted by rtraincollector on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:07 PM

Firelock76

 

 
JoeD1981

And this is a picture perfect example of what is wrong with Lionel, or I should say the 'entity' that uses Lionel's name.  No control, no building, no blame.  I never thought I'd hear myself say I can't wait for the day Mike Wolf makes packages that say "Lionel, By MTH."

 

 

 

 

I'm a great admirer of Mike Wolf, but remember Mike's products are made in China as well.

I think Mike's advantage is in a very real sense he grew up in the business, starting with Jerry Williams when he was 12 or 13.  The people running Lionel now?  Who knows?  They're strangers to us.  Possibly the latest iteration of the MBA-holding "interchangeable executive" who, in theory anyway, can jump from one business to the next and run it sucessfully without a basic understanding of that business.  I don't buy into that theory myself.

Mike probably understands who he's dealing with better than the Lionel crowd does, which is most likely why he doesn't seem to promise what he can't deliver within a reasonable amount of time.  He certainly hasn't gone the "BTO" route.

I realize not all will agree with me, and that's fine.  As far as I'm concerned Mike Wolf is the closest thing we've got nowadays to Joshua Lionel Cowan or A.C. Gilbert. 

The only thing I have against MTH is they had to do there own command type system. Not saying anything wrong with there system but I just feel I should have to buy another system when I already own one that works fine. That and I'm not into blue tooth or fancy phones, so now I'm being put out of use of his engines if what I hear is correct, that there doing away with the controllers and going to blue tooth. 

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Posted by rtraincollector on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:11 PM

JoeD1981

And this is a picture perfect example of what is wrong with Lionel, or I should say the 'entity' that uses Lionel's name.  No control, no building, no blame.  I never thought I'd hear myself say I can't wait for the day Mike Wolf makes packages that say "Lionel, By MTH."

 

 

JoeD1981

And this is a picture perfect example of what is wrong with Lionel, or I should say the 'entity' that uses Lionel's name.  No control, no building, no blame.  I never thought I'd hear myself say I can't wait for the day Mike Wolf makes packages that say "Lionel, By MTH." 

 

That already happened. It was the tinplate he was producing. Not sure what is going to happen now as Lionel and MTH couldn't come to terms, so the contract was not renewed

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