B.Y.O.B.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 07, 2017 12:48 PM

It's amazing what steamers can burn. Wood, coal, oil ( which is usually " bunker C"), which is so thick, they have to heat it to make it flow. Some kid train rides use gas, like propane. There was a train ride at Pea Soup Anderson's in Buellton, California. For a very short time, they had a small zoo, with a standard Crown Metal Products 4-4-0 pulling the train. I watched the man fire her with charcoal briquettes ( a la BBQ ).

Some sugar cane operations burned the unusable leaves, and debris from the harvesting process. I've heard of an operation in the Philippines that does this.

If you google "Oahu Railway 85", they have an update on this engine. It has not been going smoothly, and now it is in Oahu at the Ewa Plantation Museum. They are trying to get it running.  So much rail history in Hawaii, but most gone without a trace.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, October 07, 2017 4:45 PM

I suspect the main problem with 85's restoration is the same one most restorers have.  Money.  It takes buckets of it to get a long-neglected steamer running again.

Linn Moedinger of the Strasburg Railroad who's probably forgotten more about steam restoration than anyone else will ever know once said "It's always going to cost more than you think it will.  I've been doing this all my life and have never been right on an estimate yet." 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 07, 2017 6:41 PM

Postwar Paul
It's amazing what steamers can burn.

Add bamboo to the list for locomotives running in Thailand:

This page: http://www.steamlocomotive.info/country.cfm?which=thailand gives good info and pics of the 77 remaining steam locos in the country.  261 is probably my favorite Thai loco.  All were meter gauge and most were much smaller than a pacific.

Here's a Henschel v& Son (Kassel) Garrat:

This one was a logging loco (teak would be a good guess):

You really can find locos in the woods...er, jungle...in Thailand!

I like this one a lot too:

I don't know much about excursions over there, but I do know they run this train once a year:

Note the tender to tender configuration of the double header.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 07, 2017 6:48 PM

A small tribute in the form of a Mark triple niner:

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 07, 2017 7:10 PM

My radar is detecting Henschel , Orenstein and Koppel, North British Locomotive, and Beyer Peacock. If I may hazard a guess...

They are beauties !

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 07, 2017 7:11 PM

Back to the Monorails, a lot of myths and legends have sprung up about them over the years.  Here are a few from

 Werner Weiss at Yesterland.com:

  1. Legend: “The reason the Walt Disney World Monorail system has not been expanded is that it would cost a million dollars per mile.”
     
    Status: False

    The figure of a million dollars per mile keeps coming up in Internet discussions about expanding the Walt Disney World Monorail system. Someone will post that it would certainly be nice if Walt Disney World would replace the stinky diesel bus fleet with sleek “highway in the sky” Monorail lines. Then, someone will reply that they heard that the cost would be a hefty million dollars per mile, and that’s just prohibitive.  Actually, if The Walt Disney Company could add ten miles to the Monorail system for just $10 million, it would undoubtedly jump at the opportunity. The truth is that the cost would be much, much higher.

  2. Legend: “The black areas on the façades of the Swan and Dolphin can be removed to accommodate future Monorail beams.”
     
    Status: False 
  3. Legend: “There is a Monorail right-of-way through Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort.”  (Time share community)
     
    Status: True

    It’s in writing from Disney!

Why does this easment exist?  (This is my favorite part.  Big Smile)  Because the ten year plan for Walt Dinsey World included this:

Like Walt's plans for EPCOT, Disney Co. executives realized early on if you had residents living on the property and/or business tennants renting office space there, you would have to give them voting rights concerning the usage and development of the 27,000 acre WDW property.  Now, while some rides and attractions may appear as such, can you imagine what Walt Disney World would look like if it actually was designed and run "by a commitee"????  Tongue Tied

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 07, 2017 7:12 PM

Penny Trains

A small tribute in the form of a Mark triple niner:

 Wow ! That's tight !

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 07, 2017 7:58 PM

I was just re-reading your post. So the Garrett is a Henschel ? That's very interesting. I know that some of the garretts in Africa are not Beyer Peacock, which would be what you would normally expect.

Fascinating !

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:00 PM

Curiosity is setting in:

Do you know anything about "Alweg" ?

were they the manufacturers, or the designers? I know at Disneyland they always referred to their "Alweg Monorail". Same name mentioned in Seattle.

Monorails could have been the answer. Here in L.A., they are building up the Metro system- mostly on the right of way of the Pacific Electric they worked so hard to tear out !

Go figure...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 08, 2017 6:41 PM

Postwar Paul
Do you know anything about "Alweg" ?

Not a whole lot.  Here's what Wikipedia has to say: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alweg

"Alweg was a transportation company known for pioneering straddle-beam monorails.[citation needed]

Alweg was founded by Swedish industrial magnate Dr. Axel Lennart Wenner-Gren in January 1953 as Alweg-Forschung, GmbH (Alweg Research Corporation), based in Fühlingen, a suburb of Cologne, Germany. The company was an outgrowth of the Verkehrsbahn-Studiengesellschaft (Transit Railway Study Group), which had already presented its first monorail designs and prototypes in the previous year. The Alweg name is an acronym of Dr. Wenner-Gren's name (Axel Lennart WEnner-Gren).

Alweg is best remembered for their role in building the original Disneyland Monorail System of Disneyland, which opened in 1959, and the Seattle Center Monorail, which opened for the 1962 Century 21 Exposition.[1] Both systems remain operational, with the Seattle Center Monorail still using the original Alweg trains which have traveled over one million miles. A third system, built in Turin for the Italia 61 exposition remained unused a few months after the exposition closed and was destroyed by a fire in the late 1970s, most probably set by vandals. The remnants of the system were scrapped in 1981, with the north station now being repurposed as an office building."

Turin Monorail

"In 1963, Alweg put forward a proposal to the city of Los Angeles for a monorail system that would be designed, built, operated and maintained by Alweg. Alweg promised to take all financial risk for the construction with the cost of the system to be recovered through fares collected. The City Council rejected the proposal in favor of not building a transit system at all. This move was greatly resented by famed author Ray Bradbury who supported the monorail project and resented the later move to build a subway in Los Angeles.[2]

Alweg's technology was licensed in 1960 by Hitachi Monorail, which continues to construct monorails based on Alweg technology around the world. What was for decades the world's busiest monorail line, the Tokyo Monorail, was completed in 1964 by what was then the Hitachi-Alweg division of Hitachi, and today's busiest monorail system, Chongqing Rail Transit, is also based on Alweg and Hitachi technology.

After Alweg ran into financial difficulties, Alweg's German operations were taken over by Krupp.[citation needed] Alweg's Seattle subsidiary Wegematic ceased operations in 1964, but some of the technology used in the Disneyland monorail was eventually acquired by the Canadian company Bombardier.[citation needed]

In the 1960s there was a plan to build an ALWEG monorail in the High Tatras in Slovakia.[citation needed]"

Kuala Lumpur Monorail

And this is from the Monorail Society:  http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/TPAlweg2.html

"

There once was a Swedish industrialist who had a lot of money in postwar Germany. Because of laws at that time, he was only allowed to spend the money within the German borders. He chose to invest ot in a new advanced straddle-type monorail, and he named the company based on his own...Axel Lennart WEnner-Gren. The first test track made its debut in 1952 and was geared more towards demonstrating a high-speed intercity rail system. With further study, it was found that the simple elegant design would be ideal for modern urban transit. In July of 1957 the first full-sized ALWEG monorail began testing at the Fühlingen test track. It caught the eye of a visiting tourist in 1958, who wanted a monorail for his theme park. Walt Disney made agreements with ALWEG to build a 5/8 scale monorail which opened in 1959 in Anaheim, California at his then new park Disneyland. The Disneyland-ALWEG monorail captured the world's imagination and attention more than any other monorail had to date.

As a result of that attention, more ALWEG demonstration lines were built. One lasted less than a year at a 1961 auto exposition in Turin, Italy. Another was built for the Century 21 world's fair in Seattle, Washington. That system, along with the one in Disneyland, caught the attention of the Japanese. They in turn purchased rights from ALWEG to build monorails in Japan. Nowhere else on earth can one find more ALWEG-based monorail systems in operation today. However, only one ALWEG Company-built monorail remains in existence, the Seattle Monorail. ALWEG went out of business in the 1960's, but their legacy lives on in Bombardier and Hitachi transit monorails. The Seattle ALWEG monorail has been in operation since 1962. This technology is not new, but tried-and-true. As you will see, it was way ahead of its time."

Mr ALWEG:

Fuhlingen Test Track:

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, October 08, 2017 7:58 PM

That's an interesting insight into what could have been. The Monorail was proposed to the City of Los Angeles, but rejected.

Here's another somewhat similar piece of history, but with a different outcome:

 in 1947, the then mayor of San Francisco wanted to replace the remaining cable car lines with busses. The people of S.F. Came together in support of the cable cars, and they still run to this day. Although the "Powell and Hyde" line is a combination of two previously separate lines, but who's to quibble? That ride up or down Hyde street is breathtaking, in either direction!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, October 13, 2017 7:18 PM

About 2 weeks ago I got a new PC nad the last couple of days I've been ripping my collection (31 cdrw and dvdrw's) of music from the Disney parks to Windows Media Player.  My previous PC didn't have a functional sound card so it's been quite awhile since I've had any kind of a back-up to these files other than what I had burned years ago.  Most of this stuff was easy to find when the net was "young" and the "Big D" hadn't caught up to the sites that had this stuff posted as mp3's yet.  Many of them are copies of real loop, ride and song tapesm, so you can imagine why Disney cracked down on this stuff being out there in an "unauthorized" form on the net.

Anyways, one that I've just been listening to is a track from the Space Mountain ride loop and it contains an intro by Disney legend Jack Wagner.  Purple prose at it's best:

"Towering above Tomorrowland, are the futuristic peaks of Space Mountain.  Inside, Disneyland astronauts experience the thrill of a twisting, speeding, journey past the stars and unexplored galaxies.  Bursting through a cosmic vapor curtain into the deep, dark void of superspace, where time is non-existent and distances are spanned at infinite speeds."

If that doesn't make you want to ride Space Mountain I don't know what will! Big Smile

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 14, 2017 9:02 AM

That's cool that you have those soundtracks. Hopefully you have the one from the Tiki Room to enjoy !

I just realized that we haven't talked about the " Jungle Boat Cruise". That's a classic from the very beginning.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 14, 2017 7:36 PM

Postwar Paul
Hopefully you have the one from the Tiki Room

Well, I have a few...

  1. Tiki Room Barker Bird
  2. Tiki Room Pre-show
  3. Tropical Serenade
  4. Walt Disney's Enchanted Tiki Room
  5. Tropical Serenade Under New Management
  6. Tiki Drums
  7. Tiki Luau
  8. Tiki Macarena

The barker bird is the best one in my opinion.  Remember him?

"This is where you can sit on your tail feathers, and rest the rest of you.  Oh!  Excuse me, sir!  Quickly!  Quickly!  Get your passports...I mean 'tickets' to Walt Disney's Enchanted Tiki Room"  He ended up getting removed because he caused traffic jams!

Ah!  The Jungle Cruise!

Many of the rides and attractions of Disneyland grew out of Walt's desire to present guests with "true life adventures".  In fact, the working title of this section of the park was "True-Life Adventureland" until fairly late in the design process.

I know it isn't, but doesn't this look like Ronald Reagan sticking his head in a gator's mouth?  Laugh

How to animate a hippo:

Early on, skippers were issued blanks to fire at the hippos.  Nowadays they get compressed air and bad jokes.

The boats (launches) were the work of Harper Goff and were VERY much based on the African Queen:

...Harper Goff loved the film.

This photo tells a lot of stories.

Notice how easy it is to see the transition point from Adventureland to Main Street USA and how non-jungle-like the landscape was in the early days.  It would be many years before the seedlings grew!

It was always a nice day for a jungle cruise, but if you look in the back ground of this pic of Walt and daughter Diane visiting with young guests, you can see it was originally called the "Jungle River Boat Ride".  b50 cents for adults and 35 cents for kids:

Happiness is a "boating" Steve Allen?????

The first thing you'd see was the sunken city.

Buddha got replaced by something a bit more Disney:

The butterflies are fake...

..but what about the ducks?

Early gators.  Or are they crocs?

In 1962 the elephants came along and scared some of the rubbery beasts away.

The modern crocs are much scarier:

In 1964 they upgraded the African Veldt:

The "lions of the rain forest" look just had to go.  This, looks more like what we all think of:

 The "Lost Safari" was also added in 64.

In 1994 the boathose was rebuilt:

In 95 the river was shifted when the Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden Eye attraction was added.

You can see the river which passes just to the left of the temple in this pic taken from it's front steps:

In 1997 the original boats were replaced:

There are piranhas now.

Shop at Trader Sam's:

The boat house:

If you can't get enough of the skippers' bad jokes, you can always come back and take a "Jingle Cruise":

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, October 14, 2017 8:27 PM

That was fascinating! I remember the elephants, and the Swiss Family Robinson treehouse was not there, originally.

when I look at these pictures, I am thinking "African Queen", and that's what it is.

Also, I remember the shooting gallery right across from the boat ride.

The Jungle Boat is such a classic ! Thank You ! 

Also, I can see the detail became more elaborate as years went by. I recall the hippos, the elephants, I think there was a Tiger, and the man firing that pistol.

speaking of the barker at the Tiki Room, I do have a vague memory that is starting to come back.I don't think it was there last time.

I do recall from last time they nearly had to carry me out of there in my "special jacket".

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 15, 2017 9:03 PM

Here's something a modern, self-respecting, 21st century model railroader would never do:

Maybe we should credit Disney for showing us the neccessity of "view blocks" on our layouts.  He certainly knew all about selective compression!  And there too is where a lot of myths about Disneyland were born.

I made a joke awhile back about the Matterhorn, stating that mine is much easier to move around.  If I were to ask what land you think the mountain belongs in, you'd likely say Fantasyland.  But in 1959 it was considered a Tomorrowland attraction.  Why?  Most likely because it was the first tube steel coaster in America.  But also because it was part of the 1959 expansion that added the Submarine Voyage (later called "Voyage Through Liquid Space") , the Monorail and made the Autopia larger.  I'm not sure exactly when the mountain was "relocated", but calling it a Fantsyland attraction certainly makes more sense to most of us.  Especially after the 1982 remodel that made Fantasyland look much more like an Alpine village.

Back in the early days, Disneyland attractions were practically on top of each other.  And view-blocking was a thing of the future that couldn't come to pass until the trees grew.  Take a look at these photos of the entrance to Adventureland:

The one above is dated July 18, 1955.  That's the first day the park was officially open to the public.  On the left, you can see the Jungle Cruise, and accross from it are the Bazaar and Cantina.

Turn around inside the archway and look back toward the hub and Sleeping Beauty Castle seems to be within spitting distance:

There just weren't as many effective transitions between areas as there are now.  In the picture of the arch from the hub side, there's a pinkish building with white balconies in the background.  On the opposite side of the building is Frontierland.  And because the area was much more sparse in those days, you could see more of the Jungle Cruise as you were crossing into Frontierland.

The transition point between the lands was sort of a "side door".

The Shooting Gallery is just to the left of the Westward Ho. Trading Company (formerly the Frontierland Trading Post) in the background of the photo above.

Looking at it from the hub, you can see how tight everything is:

Going between the two left towers of the stockade is a very short trip between the two lands.

This 1955 map from a Bank of America brochure shows the little path clearly and yes, it's just to the right of the Jungle Cruise dock which is #1 in the red Adventureland section.  The Shooting Gallery would be about where the #2 is in the blue Frontierland segment.

Here's the Shooting Gallery:

Now called the "Shooting Exposition", it's all about lasers:

Ever eat at this place?

Not exactly my thing, but it was next door to the Shooting Gallery and since it had such a clever "vending machine" I thought I'd include it.  Big Smile

Did you know the Tiki Room was supposed to be a restaurant?  It's initial sponsor was American Airlines but that soon changed to Dole which makes more sense if it was a food service kinda place.  It was going to be called the "Magic Fountain" and would have shared a kitchen with both the Tahitian Terrace and Plaza Pavillion restaurants (the back to back buildings).  Tiki room admission was 75 cents in 1963, which was probably a bargain considering it was also the ONLY air-conditioned building in Disneyland!  Big Smile

If you think of how things are situated at the hub, sharing a kitchen with those 2 restaurants wasn't too far-fetched.

Especially since the Tiki Room is outside Adventureland.  That white gingerbread work on the left of the photo above is the Plaza Pavillion of Main Street USA.

It may have happened sooner, but at least by 1965 the ride came to have "United Air Lines" logos plastered all over it:

Explore the gardens and get to know your Tiki gods.

Though the gardens look like they'd be more fun to explore at night.

2006 photo of the Tiki Room:

The Tiki Room opened on June 19, 1963:

Getting good photos in the celluloid days was always tough since they discouraged flash photgraphy as "our performers are tempermental" to quote the pre-show spiel.  But in the digital age photographers are doing much better.

Jose:

Michael:

and Fritz:

...are the stars of the show.  But this is the place where "the birds sing words and the flowers croon":

And these guys have something to say too:

The magic fountain stayed:

But you're supposed to leave your food and drink in one of these:

At WDW the backdoor to Frontierland is just as easy to follow without noticing.

The WDW Tiki Room:

The barker bird is in the little rounded roof bit just to the left of the entrance.

Well, it's getting late for me.  I'll get to the Disneyodendron Semper Florens Eximus tomorrow!  Laugh

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Monday, October 16, 2017 10:29 PM

The Frito Kid triggers something, probably one of those novelties my parents pointed out to me when I was very young. Those first visits to Disneyland, the fragments, and bits and pieces that have remained in my memory are selective at best.

I recall things like what they were selling in the gift stands. In Adventureland, adjacent to the Jungle Boat Cruise, they were selling rubber tipped spears. Go native ! Also, which we bought, were enormous suckers made of swirls of multi- colored candy. I believe it had Mickey on the cellophane wrapper. Too big to finish ! We tried to take it home, but my brother and I fell asleep in the car ride home. It wasn't there in the morning, so I think it got tossed !

As I probably mentioned before, my brother and I wore matching shirts, although one might be blue, the other red, and both of us had crewcuts. We came away from that trip with both of us styling the red toy soldier's cap from " Babes in Toyland".

Disneyland was a great place for a kid ! 

Walt had "the Wonderful World of Disney" tv show in the 60's, and on one episode, he introduced the birds from the Tiki Room. That may be the color pictures you have of Walt and the birds. On that show, they also would show Toy Soldier's battle scene from "Babes", among other things. There is also a clip, it may have been on that show,about the completion of the Monorail. It showed Walt with an enormous wrench tightening a nut on one of the Monorail'S supports. He says " if you want anything done right, you have to do it yourself ".

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 7:35 PM

Last year WGBH (Boston) did a 4 hour documentary on Walt Disney: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/walt-disney/ and there were several scenes in it taken from Walt's TV show including scenes of the filming of Babes in Toyland.  The show was originally called "Walt Disney's Disneyland" and ran from 1954-1958.  Then "Walt Disney Presents" from 58 to 61 and "Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color" from 61 to 69.  There were also "The Wonderful World of Disney" 69-79, "Disney's Wonderful World" 79-81, "Walt Disney" 81-83, "The Disney Sunday Movie" 86-88, "The Magical World of Disney" 88-90 and "The Wonderful World of Disney" 91-present.

But who can forget the kaliedoscope:

Here's what you would have seen during the first pivotal year when Disney was producing partner for ABC, a move that gave him a lot of capital for Disneyland.:

  • Nov 3, 1954 Alice in Wonderland
  • Nov 10, 1954 Prarie Seal Island
  • Nov 17, 1954 The Donald Duck Story
  • Nov 24, 1954 So Dear My Heart
  • Dec 1, 1954 A Story of Dogs
  • Dec 8, 1954 Operation Undersea
  • Dec 15, 1954 Davy Crockett: Indian Fighter
  • Dec 22, 1954 A Present for Donald
  • Dec 29, 1954 Beaver Valley / Cameras in Africa
  • Jan 5, 1955 Treasure Island Part 1
  • Jan 12, 1955 Treasure Island Part 2
  • Jan 19, 1955 Monsters of the Deep
  • Jan 26, 1955 Davy Crockett: Goes to Congress
  • Feb 2, 1955 The Wind in the Willows
  • Feb 9, 1955 Progress report/Nature's Half Acre  The first half of the episode told the story of building Disneyland
  • Feb 16, 1955 Cavalcade of Songs
  • Feb 23, 1955 Davy Crockett: At The Alamo
  • Mar 2, 1955 From Aesop to Hans Christian Andersen
  • Mar 9, 1955 Man In Space
  • July 13, 1955 The Pre-opening Report From Disneyland
  • Oct 27, 1955 The Disneyland Story

Episode #194 which aired May 17, 1964 was titled: Disneyland Goes To The World's Fair.  Airing Jan 3, 1965 was #221: Disneyland 10th Anniversary and on Dec 18, 1966 there was #280: Disneyland Around the Seasons which aired 3 days after Walt's death.  Probably the show I'd most like to see beyond the early DL episodes, is #287 from Jan 21, 1968 Disneyland: From the Pirates of the Caribbean to the World of Tomorrow.  Babes in Toyland aired as the feature program on Dec 21 and 28, 1969 #338 & 352.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 8:37 PM

The "Wonderful World of Color," I remember it well.  Not to be missed in our house!

And I love that shooting gallery!  Who else but Disney's "Imagineers" could make a Hawken rifle shoot laser beams?  Jeremiah Johnson would loved one!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:12 PM

We grew up with that show(S). Not to mention the Mickey Mouse Club.Walt gave an insight into the progress at Disneyland. He presented his dreams to us on national television.

I did not realize there were so many incarnations of this program. I lived without a television in my first apartment for 2 or 3 years.

Played with N gauge trains, though.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 6:16 PM

Postwar Paul
I did not realize there were so many incarnations of this program.

Yeah, me neither!  There's only a three year gap between 83 and 86 when they didn't have something going on one of "the big three".  But that window would also (I guess) correspond with the start of The Disney Channel.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, October 19, 2017 7:31 PM

Ever hear of the Magic Kingdom utillidors?

Not the most exciting part of Walt Disney World to be sure, but until recent years they were off limits to guests.

This is how those characters appear and vanish so easily.

Disneyland has utility tunnels, but they're not as multipurpose as those at WDW.

WDW generates power using jet engines, I assume by using the heat to boil water and turn power turbines, but I'm not sure.

The utillidors also house the Magic Kingdom's pneumatic refuse and recycling collection systems.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, October 19, 2017 11:09 PM

what a great layout I could build in there ! See how my mind works ?

It makes sense to move all that materiel out of plain sight, and from a traffic standpoint as well.

I had no idea...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, October 20, 2017 6:45 PM

All kinds of park infrastructure just a few feet underground.  Here's a DACS (Though I have to imagine these have been upgraded since 1971):

Wardrobe:

Kinda reminds me of something....

As fun as poking around under Walt Disney World would be, I think I'd rather explore the nooks and crannies here:

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, October 20, 2017 7:22 PM

You're right ! Too much fun stuff topside !

And for me, that starts and ends with the trains !

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