B.Y.O.B.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:54 AM

Paul, yout last comment reminds me of something I read a while back.

When Tomas Edison was going to give his first public demonstration of electric lighting it was in the winter of 1880.  Edison rigged electric lights around the exterior of the Menlo Park lab and just before the evening of the demonstration there was a light snowfall, not enough to keep people away but just enough to carpet the ground.

After dark, when Edison threw the switch not only did the lamps work perfectly but the fresh-fallen snow intensified the effect, those who saw it said it looked like a winter fairyland.  Some were moved to tears at the sheer beauty.

"...coming out of the gas lamp era"  indeed!  Can you imagine what it was like?

Some wondered openly how the "Wizard of Menlo Park" managed to arrange for a snowfall!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Saturday, September 02, 2017 3:05 PM

Yes, and can you imagine to have been in Paris ( the city of light) , about 1899, in Montmartre? It must have been exciting when cities electrified their lighting. It was high tech stuff.

Maybe we talk a little about Tom Sawyers Island. My brother and I really loved this place, it was quite easy to spend a couple of hours there. Just a lot of good , old fashioned entertainment. First, there was the raft ride to get out there. Many trails around the island. Things you would expect, like a pontoon bridge. I think there was a fort of some sort. But the main attraction was the caves, and underground passages, and there were several, including " *** Joe's Cave" . They seemed to crisscross the island. My brother and I became separated somehow, but just as " all roads lead to Rome" ,we both managed to pop up at the fort at the same time. We grabbed a cold drink at a stand there at the fort. There was a gift shop, and I bought a flashlight ( how did they know? So useful for the caves ) . One cave had some stalacmite and stalactite formations. I think there was a suspension bridge of some sort also. One of the caves actually popped up right inside the fort .

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, September 02, 2017 6:40 PM

Postwar Paul
dee point I be tryin' to make mon, is dee Matterhorn she be goin' up too tracs, and be splittin' at dee top. Dose dat bee entrain' from dee right bee off in' from dee right no problem, mon. Dose from dee left bee go dat way too. Irie. iriE.Pass dee Dutchie, mon.

Yeah this pic here was about the best one I could find that showed both the left and right boarding platforms:

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, September 02, 2017 8:11 PM

It's been since 1991 for me!  Tongue Tied

Postwar Paul
The quality of the lighting at Disneyland is a memory all by itself.

I've never seen anyone better at capturing that magic than Matthew Hansen: https://hansencreative.smugmug.com/Disney/Disneyland/

The Twain (which I never get tired of looking at!):

Except for the peaks of BTM, it doesn't look much different from this 1956 view:

Walt's plan for Main Street was to have it represent the "turn of technology".  The period when "Old Dobbin was being replaced by the horseless carriage, and the gas light was giving way to the electric lamp".  Most of us rush past everything too quickly to notice the planned ambiance.  At least not till later in life.  Smile, Wink & Grin  What do kids know about ambiance anyways!  Laugh

From the 1962 guided tour script "Main Street is patterned after a typical, small American town at the turn of the century. All of the business establishments on Main Street were in business at the turn of the century or are of the same type as those found then. The gaslights are authentic and were brought from cities as Philadelphia, Baltirmore and some older sections of Los Angeles. There are many interesting and unusual shops along Main Street I'm sure you'll want to visit later. You might also like to stop by Carefree Corner, the official information and registration center here in the park. They have a registration book from each of the 50 states. They will be happy to present you with a souvenir copy of the Declaration of Independence. Incidentally, if you are just a bit worn out at the end of your tour, remember to stop by the Upjohn Pharmacy for your free vitamin pills. As we walk up Main Street I will point out the many shops to you so you may visit them after the tour if you like. A small sign above the east tunnel entrance states: Here you leave today and enter the world of yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy. Let's now go up Main Street U.S.A. for a look at the world of yesterday."

The architects model for Main Street:

Somehow you just can't beat a black and white photo for capturing those simple lamps:

And there are the windows of course:

The lighting was based largely on the 3 great turn of the century parks of Coney Island: Luna, Steeplechase and Dreamland.

20,000 leagues Under the Sea at Luna:

There was also a Matterhorn but I couldn't find a photo.

Ever hear of Nara Dreamland?  Tongue Tied  IKt's the park in Japan that looked like it was built using Disneyland postcards and Pola buildings as a guide!  Smile, Wink & Grin

In it's heyday:

The opening of a "real" Disneyland in 1982 essentially spelled D-O-O-M for this knock-off.  It sat abandoned for years as time did it's task.

Tell me that's NOT a Pola church!  Laugh

I'll leave you with the name of this coaster to contemplate...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, September 02, 2017 8:55 PM

Rafts

Tom and Huck's treehouse

Old Mill

Fishing pier

Pontoon bridge

Castle Rock

Fort Wilderness

The secret tunnel (who puts a sign on one of these things? Laugh)

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 03, 2017 10:20 PM

Oh, those pictures, and the memories they stir ! The island was fun ! I think my flashlight came from the trading post.

Thinking now about:

RideS You can control yourself.

Number one on this list would be Autopia. I think Walt Disney had a good grasp on what would be interesting to kids. What kid would not want to drive a car ? Autopia gave kids that opportunity. There was a rail in the center of the road that would catch the car if it got too far off track. You had about a 2 foot leeway left or right before the rail would catch, and prevent the car from going off the road. And, you did not even have to steer at all, and just let the rail guide you. But, kids loved driving the cars ! But power was very limited, and you only had a brake and gas petal. You would get in, and step on the gas petal all the way to the floor, and very slowly, that big hemi of what seemed like a lawnmower engine would slowly get you up to a full 5 mph. But, you were really driving, turning the wheel, and everything. Kids loved it. When teenage years came, there are some things that would only occur to a teenage mind. " Hey, let's not use the brake at all, and slam into cars that are stopped in front of us " . It became bumper cars ! Fortunately, Disney thought of everything,and the bumpers were heavily sprung, and had a rubber coating. The steering wheels had a thick rubber covering as well. My daughter loved driving when she was younger as well, although only I could reach the petals. It was a team sport ! They added a nice touch though. They gave her an Autopia driver's license.

what I call the " Speed Boats" ( actually that's hilarious when you think of the actual speed) , and is really called the " Motor Boat Cruise" was right next door to Autopia. Same concept: you drive it yourself. Same lawnmower engine... Petal to the metal, very little actually happening...

The tea cups. 

 This was fun for a family, or group. The cups were mounted on a spinning turntable,and in the center of each cup was what looked like a round coffee table . Everyone would grab the table and turn it with all their might. This would Make the tea cup spin at a dizzying speed on what was already a spinning turntable. Riotous laughter would break out trying to see how fast we could make it spin. Then came the hard part: trying to stand up and walk once the ride ended...

The Rocket Jets

 in old Tomorrowland, these simple looking rockets spinning on a center rocket appeared to be one of the most basic carnival rides. But there was a twist: each rocket had a lever you could move to make the rocket go up or down ! You controlled the height. If I remember correctly, Dumbo also had this ability to control the height.

talking about Nara Dreamland, I was not aware of this. But in '99 and 2001 when my daughter was small, we went to Sanrio Puroland. This is a theme park outside of Tokyo based on the Sanrio characters. Batz Maru, Hello Kitty, and the whole gang. Rides, parades, gift shops, and shows. 

A wee revision:

I am remembering only 1 petal in the Autopia cars, push it down to go, release and brakes would apply, somewhat gently.

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, September 04, 2017 7:42 PM

In 1955 highways were "futuristic".  So deciding to put one in Tomorrowland was sort of a "no-brainer" but since nobody knew what a mini freeway would look like, it took some doing to come up with it.  In the early days the cars had bumpers, not rails and were styled by Bob Gurr after "a Porsche 550 Spider and a custom Ferrari he had once seen":

And employee "cops" patrolled the roads in cars that ran just a tiny bit faster than tghe ones the guests used:

Around 1957 the lanes narrowed but the "bumper car style" operation remained:

The second loading station:

And check out the cars of the 60's!

The modern version:

But wait!  There's more!

The autopia was so popular they built a second version!  It was called the "Midget Autopia", "Junior Autopia" or "Fantasyland Autopia".  The loading station was just a tent.  It boarded adjacent to the very short lived "Mickey Mouse Club Circus" which you can see in the background..  (The tent was later used as a picnic grounds behind Fantasyland)

Early on it looked a lot like it's Tomorrowland sibling:

But it evolved into more of a "kiddie ride":

Mad Tea Party.

This one's from opening day, July 18, 1955:

If you said Disneyland opened on July 17th, you'd be half right!  That day was for press and invited guests only.  The 18th is when the park officially started receiving guests.  And here they are, guests #1 and #2:

Back to the tea party...compare this photo from the 50's:

To this modern view:

The added landscaping is really effective at making you feel like you're in another world and not just a feet feet away from the ride next door!  Big Smile  And talk about a great use of lighting!  YesBig Smile

The original 1956 Astro Jets:

Definitely styled to match the Moonliner!

In 1966 Tomorrowland was remodeled and the jets came off the ground and went up on top of the new "Rocket Tower" which also housed the Peoplemover:

Less "Buck Rogers" and more "Cape Canaveral":

In 1998 Tomorrowland received yet another facelift and this time around it took on the "Retro Futurism" look which is also known as "Steampunk".  Now known as the "Astro Orbitor", it's back down on the ground:

In fact, it's out in front of the old Peoplemover track at the entrance to Tomorrowland:

Which in my opinion places it too close to the hub:

Disneyland has alsways been a bit tight, but this is too close to Sleeping Beauty Castle in my opinion.

Dumbo did have the same type of control.  You can see the joystick here:

The early packy derms weren't too comfortable looking:

They were also a lot harder to get in and out of.  Maybe some guests complained!

And yes, that's Jayne Mansfield!  Big Smile  The Dumbii eventually got cutouts for far easier loading:]

Compare the original machine in the photo above with the gold plated version that was installed in 1982:

My versions of Dumbo, the Mad Tea Party, the Autopia and the Astro Orbitor.  (To keep it in Lionel-land Big Smile):

 

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 10:40 PM

Break it to me gently:

so, the People Mover is gone ? There is no justice! I really liked that one, and I thought it added a lot to Tomorrowland. I recall riding the early Astro Jets, and making them go up and down. And I remember the '66 remodel, because I have a fear of heights, and they kinda creeped me out. Only 1 time after the remodel. Too high up !

Disneyland keeps changin', the things that have come, and gone.

I really think your models are great, and you have done it justice.

Bravo !

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, September 06, 2017 8:24 PM

Postwar Paul
the People Mover is gone ?

Sad to say, yes, one of the most creative rides is just a skeleton these days.  Tongue Tied  But in better days:

The Peoplemover (1967 to 1995) was based on technology WED designed for the Ford pavillion at the 1964 New York World's Fair.  It was called the "Magic Skyway":

The real "highway in the sky" Big Smile

The outshoot of the concept was that the peoplemover was supposed to become the basic public transportation system of EPCOT.  And if you know anything about what EPCOT was supposed to be, you know it didn't mean "theme park".

Tomorrowland was the "long term test-bed" for much of the EPCOT technology and had Walt lived, his Experimental Prototype Community Of Tomorrow would have been built.  It's hard to say whether it would have succeeded, but it definately would have been built.

The track was early tech though, and nowhere near as advanced as the system that was installed at Walt Disney World.  Where the original version used rubber tires to coax the vehicles along, the later WDW system relies on magnetic induction to pull and then push the cars down the track.

In 1995 the Peoplemover closed and was replaced for a short time by the problematic "Rocket Rods"

While the Peoplemover glided you around Tomorrowland for 16 minutes, the Rocket Rods did the whole tour in 3!

That crazy thing that you're looking at in the background of the photo above isn't a ride.  It's what replaced the Astro Jets on top of Rocket Tower Plaza.  It's called the "Observatron" and it just sort of whirls around on it's own.

After being closed a lot, the Rods shut down permanently in September of 2000 after only a 2 year run.

I don't have a lot of room to play with, but I hope to build a little representation of the Peoplemover some day:

I'll probably only be able to build a simple "dogbone" track between the Orbitor and the entrance plaza. Clearance issues make it impracticable to have it tour much of Tomorrowland since it would be 12 inches off the floor to cross over the Monorail.  But I could easily modify the Skyway buckets for a reasonable facsimile:

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, September 06, 2017 11:12 PM

Thank You so much for that tour, and the background info. The people Movers were cool, and they gave you an overview of this corner of Disneyland. They also dipped into some of the rides, and displays in Tomorrowland, and gave a bit of a " sampler". You could decide what you wanted to see next. I guess the last couple of visits to Disneyland, I never even noticed they were gone. I'll miss them, just like the skyway.  Probably years of wear and tear take their toll, and Disney probably has to justify the popularity of the ride, and the ridership, versus having repair vehicles custom made. At least that sounds like it might be a reason to discontinue a ride. Autopia is very popular, and they keep coming out with upgraded vehicles. Motor Boat Cruise faded away.

I see on your models you have Space Mountain, and the Astro Jets. Glad you modeled those, they're classics. My brother and I tried to hit as many rides as possible, but we had our "short list" . In younger years, that was Tom Sawyer's, the Trains ( the big train around the perimeter) and Nature's Wonderland. Mark Twain, and the Horse Cars on Main Street.

In teen years, it was all about the Pirates,  the Haunted Mansion, and the Matterhorn. Space Mountain came along later, and I am sure it would have been on our short list, too. We discovered we could ride these popular rides early in the day, then they would be too crowded all day, and we would check out other things. But, after 9 p.m., the lines would shorten, and you could go back for a "second helping". The crowds really thinned out after the fireworks.

The last time at Disneyland, I don't remember the Horse Cars, the Omnibus, or the antique autos on Main Street. Is this something that became impractical with the heavy foot traffic on Main Street ? Many times there are throngs of people walking, it must be very difficult to maneuver a vehicle safely.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, September 07, 2017 9:03 PM

Space Mountain is one of those rides that it's just become impossible to think of a Disney Park being without.

Walt Disney always wanted to do a "roller coaster type ride in the dark" and planning was well under way in his life-time.  But they knew they couldn't do it during the 1966 remodel of Tomorrowland and decided to develop it for the Florida project first.

The WDW mountain is much bigger than the Disneyland version because it features 2 track operation.  I also love the fact that since the mountain is outside the WDWRR right of way, you have to go through a long tunnel to get there.  That keeps the lines hidden inside and you may not know how long the wait is until your deep within it!  Laugh

Space Mountain opened at Disneyland in 1977 in the "expansion area" behind Main Street where International Street, Liberty Street and Edison Square had all been planned, announced but never built.

All three of those would have been great, but personally I'm glad they built Space Mountain instead!  Big Smile  Here's the opening day line:

Oh yeah, it's an E-Ticket ride allright!

In 1998 Tomorrowland was revamped again and they painted the mountain copper, gold and green!  Ick!

It looked better at night!

And while it no longer matches the rest of Tomorrowland, it went back to white in 2003.

And the rest of Tomorrowland followed suit!

So why the "grunge look"?  At Euro Disneyland in Paris the steampunk look was a big hit.  Believing that it would catch hold in the U.S., Disney patterned it's 1998 revamp after Euro Disney's "Discoveryland".

Thus turning the Anaheim incarnation into a bronze and brass "retro futurists" paradise.

By the way, did you know that Space Mountain is supposed to fly?  Smile, Wink & Grin

Postwar Paul
But, after 9 p.m., the lines would shorten

That's where the "extended stay" guest benefits over the "single day" ticket holder.  We always planned which days to watch the parades and fireworks and which days to ride the E-Ticket attractions when most people were sitting on Main Street.  Speaking of which, as far as I know all the vehicles are still there, but I'd guess that during peak times (opening and closing hours) they may be parked to allow for the heavy morning and evening pedestrian traffic.  (These are older pics)

Walt loved to zip around the park in the fire engine in the early morning light.

There are a few that don't see active use.

And one that left the park:

The Carnation truck "In the late 1990's, the manager of the Carnation Farms located in Carnation, Washington and home of the founder of the Carnation Company was given the truck for the museum at the farm. The truck was restored and repainted and is now on display at the farm. It even occasionally motors around the farm at special events."

Disneyland had a much larger stable when the park opened so it's easy to see why there are fewer horse-drawn vehicles these days.  But in 1955, there were a lot of horses around:

However equine transportation can be a tad unpredictable.

Them's the cowboys.  Here's the "other guys":

Too bad I don't have room to model this!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, September 07, 2017 11:25 PM

The first time I rode Space Mountain was about October '78. This was the same day we were serenaded by the Tramps ( " Disco Inferno"), at Tomorrowland Terrace. It was always a surprise who would be performing there, but it may have been posted on the Marquee at the entrance to the parking lot. Regardless, we had already planned to go this day, and we were lucky with the entertainment! My first impression of Space Mountain? We liked it, but didn't quite know what to make of it. It is dark, and you see an occasional light, like rocketing through Space, and seeing distant stars and planets. The last time on Space Mountain was 2005. My daughter and I rode, and we absolutely loved it ! I did hear there had been some revamping and refurbishing of the ride, and it was great! They had fitted speakers into the seat backs in the ride, and my daughter loved the soundtrack ! I don't recall that detail from '78, maybe an enhancement. So, the verdict is in : it's cool !

I always have memories of old Main Street. The horse cars, the double decker omnibus, and the old time cars. When I was a kid, these vehicles were plentiful on Main Street, and they were always blowing the horn ( which was literally that, a horn with a rubber bulb on one end). They were warning pedestrians with the horn, but there were so many vehicles! Up and down Main Street. And you could ride them, I think it was an A ticket. The horse cars were my favorite.

 Some things I remember very clearly, other things not as well. If that is the boarding area for the canoe,  I barely remember anything about boarding. Yet, I remember rowing the canoe.Why ?

Bakuzz:

they boarded us, and gave the quickest," down and dirty" instruction on  paddling. I either was not taking notes, or too young to grasp the technique required. So, instead of rowing efficiently with the oar making nice clean strokes in the water, I was splashing and churning up a storm. Unfortunately, there was a kid sitting right behind me who 

well, you get the picture...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, September 08, 2017 6:30 PM

Yes that was the "enhanced mission" Space Mountain which also featured "Rockin' Space Mountain".  You can see the speakers in the headrests:

There's also the "Ghost Galaxy Space Mountain" for Halloween:

And now, "Hyperspace Mountain"

I suppose the ride vehicles are X-Wings now.

The Indian War Canoes and later Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes:

Water's a bit close to the gunwales don't ya think?

They changed the dock to this design at some point:

Davy's versions came after the American Indian Village closed and became Bear Country (now Critter Country since the Jamboree is gone).

A couple of them are holding the oars the right way!  Laugh

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Friday, September 08, 2017 11:49 PM

Well,that's cool ! What I remember about the canoe: it was an Indian that gave the instruction. And I remember how mad that kid behind me got ! Sorry, didn't mean to splash. Some rides nowadays are actually intended to get you soaked. I guess I'm ahead of my time ! 

 Your models are great ! Now, I need a train project. All my Lionel is running perfectly at the moment. Guess I need to build something.  I've really enjoyed this forum. Learned a lot about Disneyland, thank you. We may have covered just about everything.

Now, what to build ?

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 17, 2017 1:00 PM

Hey !

 in talking to people, the rumor keeps surfacing that one track on the Matterhorn is indeed faster than the other, or at least the final drop is more severe. Maybe my brother was right.

This may require some field research to verify...

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, September 17, 2017 4:40 PM

I've never been to Disneyland, but do they really call that mountain the Matterhorn?

I remember the Disney movie "Third Man On The Mountain" with James MacArthur, Janet Munro, and Michael Rennie and if memory serves the mountain (which sure looked like the Matterhorn) was called "The Citadel!"

I had to put emphasis on "The Citadel"  because I never forgot the way the narrator pronounced it, sounded scary, dangerous, and doom-laden.

On the other hand, in that classic monster movie "The Crawling Eye" they use a shot of the Matterhorn but call it "The Trollenberg."

It's been decades since I've seen "TMOTM" but I remember it was a good movie!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 17, 2017 6:46 PM

Yes, it is officially the Matterhorn, and the ride is "Matterhorn Bobsleds". It was an E ticket ride back in the day. There was a time also that one of the highlights of the evening would be Tinkerbell descending from the mountain ( probably on a zip line) under full spotlights. It was really magical for kids ! 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 17, 2017 6:59 PM

Firelock76
I've never been to Disneyland, but do they really call that mountain the Matterhorn?

Oh yeah!  Here's the story in short from the website where I get all these photos from:

The Matterhorn

BACKSTORY (June 14, 1959—Present): Originally a dirt mound created from what was removed to make the moat around Sleeping Beauty Castle. First named Holiday Hill and then Lookout Mountain, Park Operations staff continually had to keep a look out due to its unofficial status as “Lover’s Lane.”

The Matterhorn was conceived by Disney during two trips he made to Switzerland: first in July 1953 and then five years later in July 1958 during filming of “Third Man on the Mountain.” Born out of the desire to hide the unsightly Skyway pylon, the Matterhorn was one of six new major attractions for Tomorrowland in 1959 (however, it has always been designated a Fantasyland attraction). Supposedly, Walt sent a postcard featuring the Matterhorn back to the states with the edict “Build this.” Walt was discouraged by (Admiral) Joe Fowler when he wanted to “make some snow and have a toboggan ride.” Difficulties in creating the snow and drainage were circumvented by using steel, wood, plaster, and paint. At 147' high, it is a 1/100th replica of its Swiss namesake and the tallest structure inside Disneyland.

It is recognized as the first tubular steel roller coaster in the world, and was built by coaster builder Arrow Dynamics and WED Imagineering. What was Walt’s response when he first saw the completed attraction? Legend has it that he said, “It’s 10' too short.”

Making glacial ice in a parking lot:

The concrete was spread from the top down to prevent drips from fouling the finished details:

The "horn":

The "real" Matterhorn doesn't have so many holes it it though  Laugh:

The alp:

My alp:

It may not be as accurate as Disney's version, but mine is a lot easier to move around!  Laugh

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 17, 2017 7:22 PM

Postwar Paul
Tinkerbell

They've started doing that again:

You can see the wires and harness in this one:

But the tradition was begun in 1961 by Tiny Kline:

She was 72 when she started doing it!  YesBig Smile

From Wikipedia:

  1. Tiny Kline

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Tiny Kline (born Helen Deutsch,[1] June 21, 1891 - July 5, 1964)[2] was a Hungarian-born[3] circus performer. She performed for Barnum & Bailey and Disneyland.

    Life and career

    In 1905, Kline immigrated to the United States with a dance troupe.[3] She lived at the Clara de Hirsch home for immigrant girls.[4] She started as a burlesque dancer, but moved on to perform in the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus as Tiny Duchée.[5] There, she met rodeo trick rider Otto Kreinbrink (stage name Otto Kline). Two years later, they married. When he died during a ride, she took over and learned acrobatic tricks, including the "aerial iron jaw act", where she would be suspended by the mouth on a long glide wire.

    In 1961, Walt Disney began a search for a flying Tinker Bell to wow crowds at Disneyland. Kline was hired to glide down a wire connecting the Matterhorn to Sleeping Beauty's Castle.[3] She retired from playing Tinker Bell in 1964. Tiny was scheduled to return as Tinker Bell that same year, but she died from stomach cancer before coming out of retirement.[6] At the time of her death Tiny left the bulk of her estate to the Clara de Hirsch Home. Tiny Kline is buried in Inglewood Park Cemetery in Inglewood, Los Angeles, California.

    References

  2. Kline, Tiny. (2008). Circus Queen and Tinker Bell: The Memoir of Tiny Kline. Edited by Janet M. Davis. University of Illinois Press.
  3. Tiny H. Kline - Death Record
  4. Tinker Bell bio on MousePlanet. Retrieved on 2009-10-14.
  5. Zemeckis, Leslie (2013). Behind The Burly Q. Delaware: Skyhorse. ISBN 978-1-62087-691-6.
  6. Ladley, Diane A. Haunted Naperville. Charleston, SC: Arcadia Publishing, 2009. 87.
  7. Disneyland Tinkerbell Fought Pain, Death Alone

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 17, 2017 8:15 PM

By the way, when I worked at Cedar Point from 1988 to 1991 it was almost a daily ritual for me to ride around the park behind the real coal fired locos of the Cedar Point and Lake Erie Railroad.

I would get off work (in theory) at 8pm and during the midnight closing days I could have up to 3 hours to play in the park in the evenings.  So, after changing clothes at the dorm, I would head back in to the park, eat some corn dogs and greasy french fries and go ride the trains and roller coasters.  Most of the time I'd eat at the Iron Dragon Cafe and then ride the Iron Dragon coaster afterward.  Then I'd head over and take the trip to the back of the park.

Here's the CP&LE yard and shop:

The red buildings beyond were the boy's dorms in the old 1914 built Cedars Hotel.  The girl's dorms were in the center of the park very close to the Iron Dragon.

My favorite loco was Albert, a 1910 Davenport 2-6-0:

And then there was Maud L., a 1902 Baldwin 2-4-4T:

This loco was traded in 1999 and became Disneyland's "Ward Kimball":

And the CP&LE got this 1927 Davenport 2-4-4T which was running at Disney World as the "Ward Kimball":

It was too big for the Disneyland Railroad and was not up to the task of pulling the heavy WDW trains.  But why the CP&LE Baldwin succeeded at Disneyland and the Davenport failed I'm not sure.  But I did love watching little Maud run!  Big Smile

Other CP&LE beauties.

Judy K:

Myron H:

George R:

Jennie K:

Roger Linn:

D. B. Harrington:

This one, the Ida P., only came to CP for restoration work:

And then there's this little one:

The Plymouth diesel made to look like a steam loco!  Big Smile

A great little railroad!

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Sunday, September 17, 2017 10:29 PM

Wow !

Those are some fine steamers! 3 foot gauge, I take it?

The Ward Kimball is very similar in appearance to the Grizzly Flats Chloe that I have in G. The real Chloe was one of Ward's engines. I think it had originally been a Hawaiian sugar cane plantation engine. There's a sister engine " Olomana" that is on display in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. ( That place is superb, as a Pennsylvania nut) . 

I would not be surprised if many of C.P.'S locomotives had originated in plantation service. The Railroad Press had a series of books, 1-4 on Hawaiian railroads. I have 3 out of 4. The plantation engines had that look to them. Heavy on the Baldwin, Porter, and Vulcan. Great looking engines! 

 

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Posted by cnw1995 on Monday, September 18, 2017 9:33 AM

This is such an interesting thread. I am learning so much - I had no idea so many things had corporate sponsors. I was able to visit WDW pretty soon after it opened in 1971, and had a blast. I hope they keep steam. My kids worked at Cedar Point for a few summers and they kept saying CedarFair planned to phase them out. One thing I remember about Orlando in late 1971 was our jet passing slew of B-52s back when the airport was shared with the Air Force.  

Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, September 18, 2017 8:00 PM

Here's the website where I found info on the C.P.&L.E.: http://www.cplerr.com/  If you go to this sub-page: http://www.cplerr.com/erWardkimball.html it gives a brief history of the engines traded between Disney and CP.

Here's Chloe from the Orange Empire Railway Museum http://www.oerm.org/3-foot-gauge-grizzly-flats/:

1 0-4-2RT Switcher Baldwin 1907  

and Maud L:

CP&LE #1

   
 
Wheels: 2-4-4T
Builder: Baldwin Locomotive Works
Build Date:  1902
Empty Weight: 15 Tons
Weight on Drivers: 10.5 Tons
Driver Diameter: 30"
Tractive Effort: 4810 Lbs.
Operating Pressure: 150 lbs
Cylinders:

9x14''

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, September 18, 2017 8:38 PM

I was a coaster riding nut back in those days.  I was there during the transition from CP being the "Amazement Park" (or abusement park as we called it) to "America's Roller Coast".  I was able to ride the Magnum before the brakes were installed and the Mean Streak before all the bolts had been tightened!  Mischief

We worked 80 hours a week with only one day off a week and management usually wanted us to work them too!  Confused  You got minimum wage (about 5.35 at that time) and were hired basically as a "contractor".  That meant if you got sick you were in breach of contract!  SoapBox  It didn't matter if they sent you to their doctor and the doctor said you were sick or injured, you still got docked for it!  Angry

Not exactly a "Disney style" operation.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Monday, September 18, 2017 10:39 PM

I've ridden a coaster or two as well. My daughter and I used to ride them at Knott's. When she was 6, and tall enough, we went on Ghostrider. That's a classic wooden coaster, and the track actually has steel straps laid on top of the wood for the wheels to roll on. I mention this because you can feel every bump and jolt, and it feels probably twice the speed, although it is really moving. We still have that picture, and the look of pure excitement on our faces. We rode many times.

One time on Ghostrider, you go up an enormous hill at the beginning, and after you crest, the first big drop. This is where they shoot your picture. Well, we crested the hill, and started barreling down, and something appeared in front of my face. Suspended weightless in front of me was an eyeglass case. I tried to grab it, but couldn't. It was just floating there! We hit the bottom of the hill, and all kinds of things started to happen, twisting, turning, sliding in the seats to one side. Then the other side.Finally, it was over, and my daughter and I were laughing, and talking about how much fun it was. I told her someone's glasses floated past me. We laughed. Then, I checked my from shirt pocket. " Hey, where's my glasses?".

We loved the coaster called" Silver Bullitt". This was new in '05, and we rode it 3 times that day. It seats 4 people across, and your feet are just dangling in the air. It twists, loop to loop, corkscrews, but it is such a smooth ride ! Unlike the wooden coasters, which rattle and bump along.

The other daring deed we did was "Excellerator". 0 to 80 mph, then straight up probably 100 feet,makes a U turn and heads straight down, turns again and floats in more gentle and spiraling pattern until it runs out of momentum. It was at this point the steam train passed below us!

As fun as that was, we never worked up the courage to ride that one again. We would walk toward the line, and chicken out at the last minute.

The train at Knott's is cool! Walter Knott bought 2 C-19's, a Gallopping Goose, some coaches, freight cars, and "Edna"( business car) in 1952 after the RGS shut down. If you like Colorado Narrow Gauge, it's worth checking it out.

Thanks for the picture of Chloe. We went to Orange Empire in '95, and they have a Ward Kimball barn. Saw Emma Nevada, and some Carson and Colorado coaches, but did not see Chloe that day.

Back to Disneyland.

I remember that the Abominable Snowman inside the Matterhorn was an enhancement that was added later, not an original feature. They advertised on T.V.  Don't recall the year, though.

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Posted by cnw1995 on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 7:58 AM

Two of my kids lived and worked summers at CP a few years ago. It was quite an experience, as Penny notes. They worked many, many hours; they lived in ancient dorms that looked like steerage on the Titanic; they met some local celebrities; they made $ and connected with other workers from all over the world (CP imports those interested in hospitality).

Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 6:59 PM

Jennie K:

was recently sold to Knotts.  But reports now say that Knott's will be auctioning the loco.  As to why, I have no clue.

Postwar Paul
I remember that the Abominable Snowman inside the Matterhorn was an enhancement that was added later, not an original feature. They advertised on T.V. Don't recall the year, though.

Harold!

Yes, he didn't arrive until 1978.  In 77 Disneyland decided it was time to upgrade the ride.

That's when the sleds went from singles to doubles thereby increasing capacity and shortening (ha ha) the lines.

They also enhanced the caves and grottoes:

Look ma!  2 tracks!

The view from the location of the Motor Boat Cruise after the removal of the Skyway:

Tinkerbell's lauching pad:

The 2012 refurbishment:

Well...I guess I now know how to shrink wrap a mountain!  Big Smile

Fantastic lighting!

Say hello to the NEW face of fear...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 7:31 PM

cnw1995

Two of my kids lived and worked summers at CP a few years ago. It was quite an experience, as Penny notes. They worked many, many hours; they lived in ancient dorms that looked like steerage on the Titanic; they met some local celebrities; they made $ and connected with other workers from all over the world (CP imports those interested in hospitality).

 

In my day (boy does that make me sound old!  Big Smile) CP had the Demon Drop, The Mill Race, the Giant Wheel and A LOT more trees.  I watched a recent video of a run on the CP&LE right of way and where it used to be a ride through bucolic forest, it now passes a busy road on one side and coaster after coaster on the other.  That's progress I guess.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 8:13 PM

Wow! Lots of great info! I have a question though:

Is the company "Cedar Faire" in any way connected with the Cedar Park?The reason I ask is for the last 15 years the tickets at Knott's have Cedar Faire in small print.I think somewhere it said " a Cedar Faire company". I have noticed a difference: the steam train seems to be consistently running. In the '60's through the '80's, it was hit and miss. Back then, it seemed like half the time the train wasn't running for one reason or another. In these Cedar Faire days, they always seem to have one engine running, and one in the shop being refurbished.

Good news for train fans!

Here's another little crumb of info:

when Walter Knott purchased the trains from the Rio Grande Southern after they Had shut down, he also brought one of the RGS conductors to help him set up, and run the operation. They originally experimented with a figure 8 setup, but the curves were too tight. So, they settled on a giant loop. Also, for a short time I've heard they had "Mudhen" 464, but this engine was too big for the curvature. The rails came from the scrapped Telluride branch. And, they had a great  model train store. I remember buying an engineer's cap, and a patch to sew on it. There was a 1" or  1 1/2" scale live steamer displayed.

And an " early days" memory:

 in early Knott's, the streets of Ghost Town were not paved, just dirt. I remember one of the C-19 engines parked casually on a side track. My parents allowed me to climb up into the cab. I somehow came out with very greasy hands !

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 11:35 PM

I looked it up, and Cedar Fair is a parent company with many amusement parks, including Knott's, and Cedar Point. Those coasters at Cedar Point aren't joking around! Pretty extreme stuff ! I've slowed down considerably, and I'm more of a train ride type these days! 

 

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