To get serious about this issue I have to agree there were more than one reason for the decline of toy trains thru the late 50s and on. My grandsons who are now 6 and 8 do like the trains and they like to run them whenever they come over.
They do however like video games and so do I. I play the games with them and I feel there are surely some benefits to playing the games such as improved concentration and surely hand eye coordination. Those skills are very useful in life. Some of the games are pretty awful however, just like today's music, and I do not like them at all.
My takeaway was the same as the editor's so I thought the letter was fine. There were other "distractions" for kids, and kids like to play with things they see in the world around them. For my two boys, they like trains but they don't share the same enthusiasm for the NYC and PA railroads that I have. They see Amtrak equipment, and have been on Amtrak trains, and so when they show interest in O gauge trains they want a Genesis locomotive or an AEM-7, or a "bullet nose" locomotive. And when they want to play with freight trains, they show great interest in the newest generation of diesel locomotives, not the GP-9s of F-units that are my primary interest. (My youngest does have great enthusiasm for steam engines that smoke, however.)
Plus all of a sudden there were other neat toys for kids -- R/C and slot cars, TV, etc. Today that issue has only grown more acute with video games. Hence some of the challenges in trying to get young kids into the hobby. As far as indoor hobbies go (they need to go outside and play some sports too), I prefer trains for kids because building a layout teaches actual, useful skills and requires some discipline, all things necessary for life. Whereas a "skill" such as being proficient in video games is largely, in my opinion, useless and likely to lead to other behavioral issues.
richhotrainToy trains began to lose their fascination in the early 1970s, and video games caused their decline. In 1972, Atari introduced Pong. Two years later, in 1974, Nintendo introduced its first video game. The rest is history.
And then after the video game crash of '83, people started putting their money into trains again, and some real quality stuff started to appear around that time in all scales!
Toy trains and video games are part of a healthy, balanced entertainment diet.
That's one side of the entertainment room, and the other side is my HO layout, and then my room upstairs has all the Lionel, AF, and Marx trains.
Some people only focus on one thing. I divide my time instead, and it works out well for all but my wallet!
_________________________________________________________________
The demise of toy trains was brought about by the Russians as a Commie Plot to overthrow the wholesome American Way of Life...
Space Aliens in Area 51 were perhaps using their telepathic powers to undermine America...
Elvis Presley was jealous of all the attention toy trains were getting so he started gyrating his hips and singing evil mind bending rock and roll music...
Television did it. That darned idiot box turned everyone's minds to mush. And we all know that mush minded people don't play trains!...
Those evil wicked slot cars of the early 1960's..... Wait a minute, I had those too... Hmmmmm.....
Cobrabob.
Toy Trains, they are not just an adventure, they are a way of life !
I'm pretty sure I saw Elvis in the mall while I was Christmas shopping last weekend. I think I'll call 2 Wants to Know (channel 2 tv) and get them to send a reporter to find Elvis for an interview on this important developement in the model train industry. Wouldn't that make exciting tv?...to have Elvis interviewed on this topic? I'll bet they could find him hanging out near the Krispy Kreme shop.
Hamburger! Hillarious!
All together now...."There was a turtle by the name of Burt, and Burt the tertle was very alert, when danger threatened him he never got hurt, he knew just what to do. He'd duck, and cover, duck, and cover..."
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
arkady "Surprised no one has mentioned the decline of rail activity overall. Passenger trains were falling off like leaves, due to air travel. Freight was transitioning back to trucks. (The Interstate had been born.) With the lack of prototype activity, and the space programs, everything was in a state of transition." You've put your finger on it. More than any other factor, lack of exposure to the prototype has been the biggest blow to railroad modeling in general. Once upon a time, trains were everywhere. Even in small towns, local businesses like lumber yards and grocery warehouses were served by rail spurs, and people both young and old saw railroads on a daily basis. Then almost overnight, we were hit by a triple blow: Airlines took away the passenger business; the interstates took away most of the freight business and the space program captured the popular imagination to the exclusion of those silly old-fashioned trains. ...the one single most powerful factor has to be the rapid vanishing of prototype trains from the everyday American experience. Out of sight, out of mind.
"Surprised no one has mentioned the decline of rail activity overall. Passenger trains were falling off like leaves, due to air travel. Freight was transitioning back to trucks. (The Interstate had been born.) With the lack of prototype activity, and the space programs, everything was in a state of transition."
You've put your finger on it. More than any other factor, lack of exposure to the prototype has been the biggest blow to railroad modeling in general.
Once upon a time, trains were everywhere. Even in small towns, local businesses like lumber yards and grocery warehouses were served by rail spurs, and people both young and old saw railroads on a daily basis.
Then almost overnight, we were hit by a triple blow: Airlines took away the passenger business; the interstates took away most of the freight business and the space program captured the popular imagination to the exclusion of those silly old-fashioned trains.
...the one single most powerful factor has to be the rapid vanishing of prototype trains from the everyday American experience. Out of sight, out of mind.
Exactly. Once the daily train lost its significance as a bringer of the outside world to innumerable small towns, it was downhill for toy trains. Rock'n'Roll had nothing to do with the decline.
And to those who thought a bomb shelter would do them any good I can only say, "Adios, amigo." My homeroom teacher at dear old Music and Art used to say, during an air raid drill when we were made to line up in the hall outside the classrooms, it was so we could be found in neat rows of hamburger in case anyone was still around to clean up.
Pete
"You can’t study the darkness by flooding it with light." - Edward Abbey -
Here's the real answer.
The year was 1959, Nikita Krushchev was in Iowa for a farm visit at the height of the Cold War. I was on my way to school and we had to wait while his caravan roared past, three blocks from our home. It was 1960 when his infamous shoe pounding incident took place, that is exactly when toy trains seemed less important than bomb shelters.
Life was never the same after that.
Jon
So many roads, so little time.
fifedog In this child-of-the 60's POV, cheap-mass-produced-play-with-them-once-and-your-done HO sets were the demise of toy trains. ...and the commies. Moondog.
In this child-of-the 60's POV, cheap-mass-produced-play-with-them-once-and-your-done HO sets were the demise of toy trains.
...and the commies. Moondog.
You may not be too far wrong. When I was a kid I had Lionels, They were built like tanks and would hold the rails like you wouldn't believe, unless I did something stupid. My friends had HO sets. Not impressive at all as to size, they wouldn't hold the rails worth a damn, didn't smoke and didn't whistle and left a bad taste in my mouth toward HO which has lasted to this day.
In retrospect and in all fairness to the HO fans they were probably cheap sets to begin with, but you know what they say about first impressions.
At any rate, an HO layout in "full cry" won't shake the house to it's foundations like an O Gauge layout will! I don't know how my poor Mom stood it, unless SHE was playing with the trains while we were at school. Not that I would have minded.
No, it wasn't the music. Music is a symptom of a shift in popular attitudes, not its cause. Nor was it hot rods (when I was a teenager, nobody had that kind of money; maybe that was a California thing). Slot cars temporarily filled the void left by toy trains, but they didn't cause that void. It wasn't girls, because as far as I know, girls have always been around.
A good argument can be made for the influence of television (the decline of toy trains closely mirrors the rise in the presence of TV sets). But in my opinion at least, the one single most powerful factor has to be the rapid vanishing of prototype trains from the everyday American experience. Out of sight, out of mind.
The Abacus is not used much anymore either . . . .
My memories are of cheapened products...Being active in S gauge back in the day, my intuition told me that Gilbert's American Flyer was about to go under due to the cheapening ( crudity) of their offerings. Marx offerings were so cheapened, they were ridiculous. Then Marx, AF, Lionel simultaneously made their doomed entry into HO..and their stuff ( to me) did not stand up to the quality of their competitors, as "realism" made it's way into the market. I remember thinking the AF Pikemaster sectional layout pieces looked great but they had that awful plastic stem engine on it ( can't recall the #) and the whole scene from all the makers seemed schizophrenic at that time..the more they cheapened the product the less attractive they were to me..Those were my impressions that go back some 50 years ago..at that time. So, I think it was a number of factors at play at that time, especially slot cars..but what was available from the train makers seemed to go downhill...The last AF set I got was the CNW Baldwin switcher set and the freight cars that came with it were just not up to par with stuff they put out a decade earlier.
I wasnt into Lionel at that time so I have no impressions of their products back then..but it seems they of all of the makers..put their best foot forward from what I have read at CTT..I can't say the same for the others.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
Thanks to everyone for making me feel so young! I was born in 1974.
V8Vega No one has yet mentioned Hot Rods. As a early teenager on, me and about everyone I knew hot rods and cars were the thing. I got a model A at 15 and promptly put a Olds in it. Southern Calif is called the father of hot rods and now there are no drag strips at all anywhere, Well there is one but its only used a couple of days a year and for professionals only. Young guys today aren't nearly as interested in cars as guys used to be. Really surprising to me, it started clear back when some guy said my horse is faster than your horse.
No one has yet mentioned Hot Rods. As a early teenager on, me and about everyone I knew hot rods and cars were the thing. I got a model A at 15 and promptly put a Olds in it. Southern Calif is called the father of hot rods and now there are no drag strips at all anywhere, Well there is one but its only used a couple of days a year and for professionals only.
Young guys today aren't nearly as interested in cars as guys used to be. Really surprising to me, it started clear back when some guy said my horse is faster than your horse.
In reality you hit it right on the head for me.
My first hot rod was a 55 Chevy, which I street and track raced constantly, I have the tickets to prove it.
That developed into a life long drag racing thing that I only stopped about 5 years ago due to the financial burden it was after retirement. My fastest car, an all out race car, could hit 150 in under 5 seconds.
Do you actually have a V8 Vega? I remember when they first came out with that lousy little motor they came with. Guys started putting V8s in them since the engine compartment was big enough and a very fast little street car was born.
This was my partly stock race car... with it's little motor.
The grille, headlights and tail lights were stock, nothing else... body was all fiberglass, chassis was all chrome moly.
Surprised no one has mentioned the decline of rail activity overall. Passenger trains were falling off like leaves, due to air travel. Freight was transitioning back to trucks. (The Interstate had been born.) With the lack of prototype activity, and the space programs, everything was in a state of transition.
Don
Slot cars were the first blow to trains in my opinion. I remember, and still have my first Aurora set, which my grandkids have not seen yet.
I have bought them a new drag race slot car set for christmas, complete with working christmas tree, foul and win loss lights. I may also install one on my layout for the big old kid.
Then came the video games in the early 70s which further hurt trains. There seems to be a steady hard core group out there now who are keeping it going.
However the real reason for the downfall of toy trains, I do believe, is that it was the Martians that actually destroyed train interest and they continue to destroy us with the current crop of horrible music, (I really think it is a brain killing device developed by the Martians), which will turn us all into slaves for the Martians to do with as they wish.
At least that is the best explanation for I can give for the current noise called music????
In 1957 I was just born and got my first train set that year. I think what did Lionel in was the Space race, UFOs, BIGFOOT, and of course TEXAS PETE and his AXE.
laz57
1957 I was 2 lol but trains where part of my life until I joined the Navy and even still then off and on not as much as when I was younger but back then it was like a thanksgiving Thur new years thing and longer if I sneaked them out lol. Lionel became a big part of my life in 1963 prior to that was HO as my father sold our A.F. when I was about 4 or 5 and bought this thing called HO by Lionel.
I still had HO Thur high school until then I always had my O gauge around the Christmas tree and we had like a 4' x 8' in the rec room down stairs that had HO My father would buy me Lionel item every Christmas and for my birthday in Feb as it was obvious my interest was more for O.
I still collect and Ran O gauge while in the navy when home around the holidays except one year I brought home a Lima 2 rail O gauge set from Italy as it was something new it ended up under the tree that year.
I sold all my trains once back around 3 years after I got married because of lack of room and need of money more than any other reason but the train interest still burned in me and to be honest has never left me
But to me the decline of trains was basically in the 60's - 70's due to a few things and music wasn't really one of them. It had to do with things video games, girls, space age, and things like that the direction that folks were following were changing as they are today. To be honest today I doubt you could keep a kids interest ( over the age of 10) with trains with a conventional set with just a small oval and some buildings and a siding or 2 for more than a week or so as there so much into electronics and all.
The bottom line really is the changing of times is the dismiss of things whether it be trains or what ever so to blame a type of music is not very realistic in my point of view. Its technology
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
I'll wait to read the letter for full judgement, but from this, I shudder to think what this person thinks about people my age.....
In 57m I was 11. Still playing trains. Now a few years later, as Bob said, GIRLS.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
There's a lot of reasons for the near demise of O Gauge trains in the early '60s. The lack of available six to twelve year old boys as the "Baby Boom" slowed down, inept management at Lionel, (remember when we say O Gauge in those days we mean Lionel), the railroads lack of relevence in everyone's lives as the decade wore on, and the demise of the steam locomotive and the corresponding lack of interest in diesels by the general public.
Then there was the whole Air Age and Space Age thing. Pilots and astronauts became the new heroes. The railroad engineer became just another blue collar guy, not the lordly master of a fiery beast.
All these things came together and just about killed toy trains except for the hard-core true believers.
Of course, if you're a Democrat you can blame Nixon! If you're a Republican you can blame LBJ!
I always thought it was because of road racing sets.
And Chef-Boy-Ar- Dee canned spaghetti.
I had a Sears Tele-Games system growing up. (For the uninitiated, the "Tele-Games" was the Sears version of the Atari 2600.) I played with that more than my Lionel in the 70's/80's and asked for hot games like Pac-Man, which I remember buying after pooling my cash with my brother. I wished and asked for MPC sets like the James Gang General at the same time, (while in toy stores, never had any catalogs) but only got a few HO sets like the Tyco Turbo Train and Golden Eagle because they were a lot cheaper. I still have my Atari stuff but I don't have a working system to play with. But that's OK because I have Atari's Greatest Hits 1 and 2 for my Nintendo DS and the Namco Museum which has the arcade versions of Pac-Man, Galaga, Galaxian, Dig Dug and a few others to satisfy my hankering for old style games.
And many of you may not know this, but Lionel did have a game for Nintendo DS that was released a dozen years ago. I have it and it's my go-to game on my DS just like Tetris was on my old GameBoy (which I also still have).
So video games and toy trains aren't mutually exclusive. At least not in my universe. But strangely, I have a MIB Nintendo Wii I got for Christmas a couple of years ago collecting dust under a bed as I have little interest in learning/using another system that requires me to change rooms to play like I had to do when I was a kid. I've discovered that I like my games handheld and my trains dominating everything around them.
Anyhoo. The decline of any product is relative only to a decline in demand for it. The reasons why it happens are as varied and numerous as there are humans on the surface of the planet at the time it occurs. But don't fret, the same logic can be applied in reverse to explain the rise in popularity of a product as well.
Change is the only constant and diversity is the only normal.
But if you really want to, you can blame it on the nazis, commies, terrorists or Simon Legrees of the world. I do because it's funnier that way!
Maybe it's a regional thing. In my area, trains were done in the early 1960's. The hot toy/hobby item were slot cars. Not only were home sets popular, there were two commercial tracks within walking distance of my home.
I have to agree that rock music had nothing to do with the demise of toy trains.
And, the guy got the year wrong. In 1957, I was 14 years old and had just received my second American Flyer train set. Toy trains were still all the rage.
Toy trains began to lose their fascination in the early 1970s, and video games caused their decline. In 1972, Atari introduced Pong. Two years later, in 1974, Nintendo introduced its first video game. The rest is history.
Rich
Alton Junction
Honestly, what killed "toy trains" is that a lot of us became model railroaders.
When I walked into my LHS as a teenager I didn't find much Lionel on the shelf, and no Flyer at all. It was all HO, and later N-scale. The companies themselves contributed to this because they couldn't or wouldn't move beyond their traditional format of only selling catalogue sets through Sears and other department stores. In doing so they ceded the hobby shop market to the likes of Atlas, Athern, and Roundhouse.
In my area of the Midwest, the large scale train sets only started reappearing on the shelves of hobby shops in the '80s and '90s. About the time 50's nostalgia became all the rage. And us baby-boomers finally got to the point in life where we could afford the trains we could only look at in store windows when we were young.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
I'm not quite sure that was literally what the reader was saying. My takeaway was that there wasn't anything left at Lionel to catch the attention of a youngster and they moved on to other things, like music (and girls, the service, cars, college, work, etc.).
Bob Keller
We never had all this strange weather until people started fooling around with bows and arrows.
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