90 watt # 1044 transformer quit working

[richardm47]

The overload light does not come on unless I get a derailment.  I was thinking of checking with a continuity tester -- I should get  nothing  center rail to either outside track ?  -- a check on  a piece of track, I get no movement on the meter, --   no train on the track of course.   I don't think it is a direct short, or nothing would run, but there seems to be some contact between middle and outside lines. -- I did a quick check of the empty layout. and got the meter to register, so I think that means one(or more) of the insulators is not working.  - Now to check sections and try to isolate the problem track.  I did disconnect the transformer, so there is nothing but track and the meter moved, to confirm some contact between center and outside rails.

Thanks again for all the forum suggestions.   what a great resource.

[TrainLarry]

The easiest way to find the bad section of track is to physically divide the layout into 2 sections-pull the track apart at 2 points. Power up 1 section and see if the overload light comes on. If it does, further divide the bad section into 2 parts and power up one  section at a time to see which section the overload light come on. Continue this until you find the bad section of track. This is the quickest and easiest way of determining where a short in the layout is.

Larry

[richardm47]

Again thanks for the excellent suggestions -- TrainLarry saved me a lot of searching with explanations of lube and oil.  The other thing I must check is all the insulators of the old track.  It looked better than my original track purchase, but things may not be as good as it looks......  The transformer is performing nicely on another line.  I have a transformer with an overload light that goes on before it trips, on the problem line while I search and tweak. 

I may not check back for a while, as my wife thinks my new hobby is taking a lot of my time, online and working on the trains -- hmmmm,    but we've been 45+ together -- so I'll work on trains for a while.

[lionelsoni]

If the problem was the circuit breaker, you should still have seen voltage at several terminal pairs even though it was tripped.  And it should have made an audible noise when it tripped and should have reset within a minute or so.  Your power cord and its connections may not be the trouble; but you may have isolated the problem to an intermittent open circuit within the primary winding, which is nearly impossible to repair. 

[TrainLarry]

 If your locomotive is from the postwar era, then you can lubricate almost everything without taking it apart. A drop of oil on either end of the motor shaft, some grease on the gears, and a drop of oil on the axle bearings should get you going. If the wheels on the tender and rolling stock freewheel on the axles, the wheel/axle interface needs to be oiled also. Newer rolling stock have the wheels and axles turn together, and they do not need to be oiled. Clean all old oil and grease off before applying new. Newer locomotives with the DC 'can' motors do not need to have the motor oiled, but the grease and oil on the gears and axles still apply.

Larry

[richardm47]

Thanks again for the prompt replies and suggestions.  Again I got caught in not looking for a simple solution.

And I was thinking the transformer might make a good "paper weight"  I did cut off the old plug and the wires at the transformer,.  so now it has a new plug/wire.  But I don't think that was the problem.

After much searching and realizing that the circuit breaker was probably doing its job, I think the issue is the old 2-4-2 drawing more power than it should, and the circuit breaker doing what it should do.  The engine (another ebay bargain) -  was hard running when I got it, but after grease, oil and some tweaking of the side shafts -- they were binding on the frame -- I got the engine running.  But with the "starter transformer" it would barely run medium speed.  With the 90 watt, things worked fine, but then shut down after 20 - 30 min -- pulling 4 heavy log dump cars and tender...several loops around a short oval.  I have another transformer -not Lionel -- but more than 90 watts, and it seems to do fine.  It also has a "warning" overload light.  So I will use it and  watch that light.  After replacing the plug on the 90 watt, it ran another engine --another starter, 2-6-2 -- on a different layout,  but that one has always been fine, even with the smaller transformer.  I may have to take apart the 2-4-2 and oil/lube more than just the drive wheels.  So I will look on line for some diagrams.

Thanks for your suggestions, I'll work on the engine, and check the tracks as they are old too..    Richard.

[cwburfle]

The position of the throttle and/or reversing/whistle switch should not affect whether there is continuity through the power cord. They only affect the secondary circuit. If the blades on the plug show continuity, try wiggling the cord to see if an intermittent break is present.
I find that on many cords (not just Lionel train transformers) the conductors inside the wire break right near the plug or right where the cord enters the device. (as has already been posted)

Often the cords on Postwar Lionel train transformers are cracked and brittle, so yours may need replacing regardless of the continuity. 

Just yesterday I had to replace the cord on an old Pioneer integrated amp. The insulation was split where it entered the strain relief bushing.,

 

This link is also to the Olsen's site, it is for Lionel's general write up on their transformers:

 

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=630

 

[richardm47]

Thanks for the great suggestions.   I was thinking it was the circuit breaker.  I checked continuity on the power cord and with the throttle off, I can get indicator on the plug ends as well as the windings end of the cord.  That tells me that the cord may have a short, but have not seen or smelled any tell-tale indicator.  I would think there would be no continuity if the lever was off.

I did get the links for the service manual, so I have some things to  check using all the suggestions.

Thanks again.   Richard.

[TrainLarry]

I agree with Bob. If the transformer is totally dead, more than likely the power cord is bad and needs to be replaced. If the circuit breaker or reverse switch were bad, you would still get voltage at terminals A-B.

 No need to send an e-mail for the schematic, just click the link here.

Larry

[lionelsoni]

Forget the circuit breaker, reversing, and whistle switches.  The fact that you see no voltage anywhere points to the primary winding, which is, or should be, connected directly to the power cord.  It may have come loose inside the box; it may have an open circuit inside the cord from flexing where it comes out of the box, or the plug may be bad.

(There is no rheostat inside the transformer.  The voltage is controlled by a wiper on the exposed secondary winding.)

[cwburfle]

never mind

[richardm47]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I used #800 really fine with some electronic contact cleaning fluid.  Are the windings supposed to be separate? Could the small gouged track cause the windings to touch each other?

I don't have a burnishing tool, but looks like I will need one,.

I don't see a control shaft.  The lever controls are only just below the surface of the top plate.

The whistle and direction worked.   I have no voltage reading across any pair of the 4 terminals.

Where would the circuit breaker be located? 

Thansk.  Richard.     I'll also send an email to the address supplied for the schematic.

[cwburfle]

The 1044 (and 1033) does not have a roller, just a wiper that slides across the transformer windings. The most common problem with those transformers are in the reversing / whistle switch.
I clean the contacts and wipers with mineral spirits, and burnish them with a fiberglass burnishing tool.
I believe those transformers have a collar (through which the control shaft goes) that is part of the circult. It has to be clean too,

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=648

 

 

[ChiefEagles]

Wish you had not sanded it.  Check for a roller.  Is it worn out?  Also, check for a circuit breaker.  If it is stuck open, will do same.  Could be a shorted field and when it heats, opens.  Hard to say.  Send me an email to [e-mail].  I will email you a "blow up" of the transformer.

[richardm47]

Hello again from the neophyte constant tinkerer.

I'm looking for advise on an old transformer I got on ebaby --It's the  black and silver # 1044, 90 watt with speed control and direction/whistle levers.  This was "as is "  but looked clean and was claimed to come from the owner's set.... and it was only $20 + shipping -- I should have paid for the more expensive one that said "tested" .    Anyway it ran a small track with a 2-4-2, a whistle tender, and some log cars 8 - 10 times -- whistle and direction changes worked -  then it quit -- no juice at any terminal.  I opened it up and it is very clean, except for a black streaked impression from the speed control on the rheostat winding --which may be the problem (or not). I cleaned that with fine sandpaper and the train made a couple of loops , then quit again.     It seems to be something simple -- or it's not fixable?