00 vs 0 gauge

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00 vs 0 gauge
Posted by wyomingscout on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:25 AM

I've been watching "I Love Toy Trains" on RFD-TV. They had some really good shows about Lionel accessories and operating cars.  Hope some of you caught that.

Anyway, on other programs, they talked about Lionel 00 gauge.  I think it must be smaller that 0 but larger than HO.

Does anyone have a picture comparing 0 to 00?  I'l like to see it; the TV show didn't say much about the actual size or how it compared with 0 gauge for size.

Thanks,

wyomingscout

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Posted by bfskinner on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:38 AM
bf
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Posted by DMUinCT on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:58 AM

wyomingscout

I've been watching "I Love Toy Trains" on RFD-TV. They had some really good shows about Lionel accessories and operating cars.  Hope some of you caught that.

Anyway, on other programs, they talked about Lionel 00 gauge.  I think it must be smaller that 0 but larger than HO.

Does anyone have a picture comparing 0 to 00?  I'l like to see it; the TV show didn't say much about the actual size or how it compared with 0 gauge for size.

Thanks,

wyomingscout

  "OO" gauge is slightly larger than "HO" gauge, much smaller than "O" or "S" gauge.

  Lionel entered the "OO" market in 1938 with a Freight Set pulled by a Full Scale Hudson, a minature copy of the 700E from "O" gauge.  The Hopper car was light gray, the Box Car a cream color. Three rail track only.

  From 1939 to 1942 the car colors became more prototypical and a Simi-detailed version of the Hudson was added (like the 763 in "O" gauge).  The Full Scale Hudson was cataloged with 4 cars, the simi-detaled Hudson with 3 cars.  All engines and cars were all metal and they could be had with ether 2 rail or 3 rail track..

   Then, World War II hit, all metal toy train production stopped.  The War ended but Lionel never again built "OO" gauge.   The 4 years of production (1942 sets had to be left over sets from 1941) make "OO" VERY collectible.

  Figure $400 for a Locomotive, $75 to $150 each for cars, and $10 a section for track.  Switches go for about $150.  Note, 1938 track does not mate with 1939-42 track.

  The photo below, from my collection, shows at the bottom the 1938 set, next up the Simi-detaled set from 1939-42, next up the Full Scale set from 1939-42, and at the top a part of an "O" gauge set

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by wyomingscout on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:55 AM

Thanks, bfskinner, for the link.  The scale helped put it in perspective.  That's a handy site, too.

DMUinCT, I' m not interested in collecting, especially at those prices.  You collection looks great.  Thanks for the photo with the 0 and 00 together.

 Richard P. Kughn, former chairman of Lionel, said he really liked the 00 gauge and even thought of re-introducing it, but Lionel was too busy with 0 and 027.

Looks like it could do well.  Maybe enough smaller than 0 to put a lot of track in a small area and yet large enough to play with easier than H0.

I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse. Ronald Reagan
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Posted by PhilaKnight on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:50 PM

This thread just answered one of my unanswered questions that I keep forgeting to ask. See it pays to check in everyday.

Do they still run I Love Trains on RFD. I get it on Direct TV but I haven't seen it on lately. I love this channel it reminds me of when I was a kid and spent summers upstate with my moms family. I love the vintage tractor shows. My son and I watch Trains and Locomotives every Sunday

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Posted by Kooljock1 on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:10 PM

 Train & Locomotives is on Monday nights at 6PM Eastern.

 I Love Toy Trains is on Thurday afternoons at 4PM Eastern.

 Jon Cool

Now broadcasting world-wide at http://www.wkol.com Weekdays 5:00 AM-10:00AM!
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Posted by tcox009 on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:19 PM

Check out this site for American OO

http://americanoo.blogspot.com

Tom Cox

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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:19 PM

The OO curves are comparable to O27; so you're not going to get a lot more layout in the same space compared to what you can do with O gauge.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:20 PM

European 0 gauge is 7mm:1 foot.  00 gauge is 4mm:1 foot.  H0 gauge is 3.5mm:1 foot.

Lionel introduced their 00 gauge during the great H0 versus 00 gauge debate that eventually fell out in favor of H0 in the US and in favor of 00 on H0 rails in the UK.  In the event, it seemed that Lionel backed a losing horse in the Great Gauge Race.

Chuck

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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:25 PM

Actually continental European O is 1/45.  British O is 1/43.5, or 7 millimeters/foot, as they quaintly define it.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by DMUinCT on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:23 AM

lionelsoni

The OO curves are comparable to O27; so you're not going to get a lot more layout in the same space compared to what you can do with O gauge.

 

   To add to this, yes, 3 rail track does form a 27 inch circle.  Electric Switches and Crossovers were made available in 3 rail version only.  The 2 rail track, available in Curved and Straight only, formed a 48 inch circle.  

    Lionel "OO" ran on AC from standard Lionel Transformers.

Better shot of size between "OO" and "O"

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by bfskinner on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:01 AM

lionelsoni

Actually continental European O is 1/45.  British O is 1/43.5, or 7 millimeters/foot, as they quaintly define it.

Quaint indeed! The Brits would get their knickers in a twist if you mixed a metaphor, and yet they do that?  Tsk, tsk.*

Back on high school physics exams we sometimes expressed rate of travel in "furlongs per fortnight" just for the devilment of it. Teacher seemed amused -- if we got it right.

 

* And  yes, I do know why they do it that way...

.

bf
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Posted by lionelsoni on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:11 PM

The scale of HO is 1/87; and the US Constitution was written in '87.  The scale of OO is 1/76; and the Declaration of Independence was written in '76.  Coincidence?  I think not.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by bfskinner on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:49 PM

Numerology this week; phrenology next, perhaps. It seems there are no limits to the erudition of this forum...

bf
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Posted by ACF1001 on Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:43 AM

As soon as I am able, I will get Direct TV so that I will be able to watch as well. I don't know how true this is. Lionel got involved with OO was because the belief at the time was that HO was just a fad and it was not taken seriously and something about the size of the motors as well. Please shed some light.Smile

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Posted by mersenne6 on Thursday, February 19, 2009 9:05 AM

  In the mid-1930's arguments for and against OO vs HO did focus to some extent on the issue of motor size and space availability in locomotives but this faded by the early 40's.  As for HO being a fad - Lionel would have had to have been the last to know this wasn't the case.

Model Railroader had an annual suvey of gauge popularity TT, HO, OO, S, O, and others  here's the way their poll ran:

1936  HO - 36%, OO - 2.1%

1937 HO - 33.9%, OO - 10.3%

1938 HO - 36.5, OO - 10.6%

1939 HO - 39.3%, OO - 16.9%

1940 HO - 46.3%, OO - 13.6%

1941 HO - 45.6%, OO - 14.8%

1942 HO - 53.5%, OO - 13.6%

1943 HO - 48.9%, OO - 12%

1944 - no poll

1945 - no poll

1946 - no poll

1947 HO - 54.9%, OO - 8.5%

1948 HO - 62%, OO - 6.5%

1949 HO - 69.3%, OO - 2.1%

  So even in the pre-war period OO was definitely in the minority and at no time came close to matching HO in popularity.

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Posted by DMUinCT on Thursday, February 19, 2009 9:15 AM

ACF1001

As soon as I am able, I will get Direct TV so that I will be able to watch as well. I don't know how true this is. Lionel got involved with OO was because the belief at the time was that HO was just a fad and it was not taken seriously and something about the size of the motors as well. Please shed some light.Smile

 

    Right you are, Lionel took sides and it turned out being the wrong side!

  Lionel did have problems with space within the Locomotive and Tender body.  Lionel wanted to run on the voltage of there "O" gauge trains, 15-18 volts AC, with "O" gauge transformers.   To do this they had to design a new, compact, "E Unit" that they also used in the 8976 0-6-0 "O" gauge Switcher.  At this time in history "HO" was running on small 6 volt DC motors (after WW II "HO" went to 12 volt DC).  The Coal Pile of the Tender is very high, yes, they fitted a Whistle in that tender. Whistles were unknown in "HO".

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by 3railguy on Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:25 PM

We had OOO at one time too. Treble O it was called. It eventually became N scale. "N" for Nine mm gauge.

John Long Give me Magnetraction or give me Death.

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