60 Minutes II

[ChiefEagles]

More like the Roman Empire. Will we not learn for past history.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Wow Tom, It's funny that you should mention the price of steel. Big_Girl's sister got a large dog last fall, and has decided to fence her back yard. When she got the bid, the fence guy said the same thing about steel prices. The bid was for $4000!!!

My opinion, skip the dog, skip the fence, and buy trains instead.[swg]

I don't want to get political here, but I think this country has gone to the dogs.

[spankybird]

Just don’t worry about gas pricing, Waite until you find out what steel pricing is doing. It has doubled in the last 6 months. Hot Roll Steel we were pay $18.00 per hundred pounds is now $32.00 per hundred pounds. Think of everything that has steel in it.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Nope Buckeye, not today. I was near the mainline at a junction. The other time I was at a very busy location near a yard. The guy who approached me today seemed like a maintenance worker, hard hat, orange vest, pickup truck with the retractable wheels.

After a polite conversation, we stayed, and he moved further down the line. I suspect that he was watching, but I was unphased, and undetered. I wasn't really doing anything, except compacting the loose dirt where I stood.

Of course from his perspective, my presence was cause for investigation, but I got the sense that he wasn't particularly alarmed, as he had seen railfans before.

During these times it may be necessary for railfans to try to establi***rust with the railroads. By being polite, respectful, and even possibly helpful, they will see that we are not the problem. We are almost volunteer observers, in their quest to keep the evil doers away.

The truth is, that I was a railfan, long before the word terrorist entered our vocabulary. I will be damned if I allow some terrorist *** to come between me and one of the greatest parts of this hobby I love so much.

Since 9/11 we Americans have run around like chickens with our heads cut off, though we have seen no further attacks on our soil. All the while attacks continue around the world. If the terrorists force us to change our way of life, they have won.

We throw money blindly at problems that may not even exist, and live in constant fear. I am in no way suggesting that we do nothing. I believe that we are awake now, but we have lost our perspective and common sense, when it comes to dealing with this problem. We need to understand how they think, and why they think the way they do, in order to understand how and why they choose their targets. Let's face it, this country is just too large, to try and patrol every inch.

By the way Frank, if oil prices continue the way they are going, the trucking industry will be dead in 10 years anyway. LONG LIVE THE RAILROADS!!!!

[ChiefEagles]

You folks don't realize that Elliot [AKA Big Boy] is a sleeper agent for the trucking industry. He's trying to do away with rail service. After all, trains save fuel and CAN be more efficient. [notice I used the word CAN].

[Buckeye Riveter]

Big Boy,
By any chance were you near a yard?

[Big_Boy_4005]

I was out railfanning this morning, when I was approached by an employee of the Canadian Pacific. He was a real nice guy, and we got to talking. The railroads are very sensitive these days. My feeling is that while it makes sense to be vigilant, there are simply too many miles of rails for them to try to police them all. He informed me that he had recorded the license plate on the car, and I explained that we were the good guys and would help by reoprting any suspicious activities if we saw something. The fact that I had a camera and a railroad scanner, seemed to convince him that we were harmless, and we both had a laugh. The Empire builder finally showed up 90 minutes or so late, I snaped a few quick shots and was on my way.

[censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored]TERRORISTS, are ruining this country with paranoia. On the other hand, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you. These are some SAD times.[B)][:(]

[Anonymous]

Well, it really wasn't much. It talked about how the railroads are under threat from terrorists, but noone has really done anything much about it since the train bombings in Madrid. It focused alot on commuter trains like New York's subways. Some people were interviewed and specific incidents where terrorists have planned to target trains were mentioned. Basically, the general idea they were trying to put forward was that there's so much security at airports and not really much on trains and at stations.

[FJ and G]

I have a meeting to attend tonight. Someone please fill me in tomorrow on how things went on 60 minutes.

dav

[Anonymous]

Take a walk outside and look around, the terrorists could hit just about ANYTHING in this country. The thing you have to keep in mind is they want to do the MAXIMUM damage both in people killed and in hurting the US financially. Unless I am mistaken there are very few trains that carry large amounts of people everyday, the NY subway comes to mind. Also unless you can drive a train into a large building like say the empire state building I don't think the terrorists are going to hit the railroads. Just my opinion but it also doesn't mean there shouldn't be some kind of stepped up security.

As for the track issue, I don't know if this will work with the new track from lionel but I remember seeing a layout that instead of screwing the track down, plastic zip ties were used and it made the layout much quieter because the sound and vibration were not transmitted through the track to the layout. It might be worth experimenting with on the new track to see if it is feasible.

[ChiefEagles]

Great Buckeye. Had not thought of the foam overlay ove the whole board. Pretty good.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Chief,
Noise damping is not that hard. I recommend using L-girde type benchwork with max 16" space stringer. On top of that 2" high density foam. On top of that 1" low density foam. If you need to connect the track with track screws, i.e. flex track, put a thin veneer sheet between the two foams. Since I used MTH Real Trax I didn't need the veneer layer to hold the flex track and I just shoved the deck screw into the foam.


I can hear my Railsound Engines without track noise. The change in foam knocks down the sound waves as the vibrations travel through the material. Use a skirt around the edge of the table for more deading. I buy the plastic skirts from a paper party store. Black looks about the best.

[ChiefEagles]

OK, since this has switched to track and noise, what is your best underlay for track? Elliot has suggested that I use foam insulation sheets. Sure would be easy to cut, shape and curve. What thickness is best for 0/027? On fuels and foreign oil consumption, use ethanol. As a fleet manager for the State of NC [until retirement in Nov], I bought as many E85 flexfuel vehicles that I could buy. Ford Explorer and Taurus, Chevy Tahoe, Silverado and Suburban with 5.3 engine, and Dodge Caravans were standard flexfuel vehicles. Problem is we had to import ethanol from the mid west. These vehicles will run on ethanol and/or regular gasoline. We make ethanol from US grown farm products [mainly from corn but sweetpotaotes and grasses will work].

[Anonymous]

brianel....

What's scary.... is the following quote... directly from Lionel's website.

In mentioning the "new " Fastrack products coming out this year, they go on to say:

"That’s not to mention the exciting items that are being worked on for delivery in 2005!
FasTrack is destined to become the track system for the next fifty years. Start the layout of your dreams today!"

Oh, my gosh.... the ONLY new track system by Lionel... FOR THE NEXT 50 YEARS!!!

Well, I guess I (and, many others) am not going to live long enough to see any better track system than what we've been using.... for OVER 50 years. Sad!! Very Sad!!

Doesn't ANYBODY test their products thoroughly, anymore... before it's released?

Surely, not all of the product testors could be deaf, could they????

[brianel027]

Alan-H, try a search for Big_Boy_4005 or Amtrak Jack. Elliot (Big Boy) did us all a great service by pulling apart a section of the track with photos posted here. Amtrak Jack did some extensive experimenting. We all agree, Lionel goofed. I've had the chance to hear trains running on FasTrack mounted to plywood... it drowns out even the Railsounds. I can't see how this will be real popular with any serious modelers, especially with all the better track systems available.
Elliot did post a list with all the FasTrack topics. Amtrak Jack started the thread where this was mostly discussed.
Good luck.

Ironically, Lionel states the track was meant for beginners. Which I guess is why they're offering it in larger radius curves instead of tighter - which is what they should be doing.

[Anonymous]

brianel027...


I don't mean to change the thread's topic... but, just today, I read a post of your experience with Lionel's Fastrack system... i.e. "It's TOO NOISY !!!"

Has anyone offered a solution or remedy for the noise of the track on the plastic ballast stand?

If there's another place on the Forum where this is discussed, please let me know.

[Anonymous]

cnw1995...

Gosh, thanks for the whole synopsis!!!

Now, I won't have to waste a whole hour sitting if front of the boob tube listening to a bunch of Chicken Littles... "HELP... the sky is falling !!!".... and guess what I can do with that time.... PLAY WITH MY TRAINS !!!!

Just kidding... it's probably a very enlightening program that just "may" get our government to adopt some measures that could prevent another tragedy like 911.

[brianel027]

Assuming the oil producing Arab nations have sympathy with these terrorists, the terrorists won't have to lift another finger. If the oil producing nations keep cutting back oil production (while many American's are now driving bigger vehicles = more oil use) and gasoline prices keep going up as they are, they may drive our economy down the toilet with more bad results than anything else they could plan. The economy isn't so great to start with. And corporate Amercia's penchant for moving jobs overseas isn't helping anyone either (except their own pocketbooks).

Sorry guys... guess I'm being more cynical in my old age. I wish instead of talking about how much the railroads are such a target (which I'm sure they've figured out anyways) that they'd talk about how better use of railroads would save fuel and help the economy.

Of course, the hard thing there is getting American's to change their habits. Given the sales increase of SUV's with mobile movie theatres, cell phones, hi-fi's better than I have in my home, etc., I'd say not likely.

Our great strength as a nation has been to pull together and be at our best when necessary. Too bad it usually takes some crisis to happen first.

Man, I think I'm in the mood for a Bugs Bunny cartoon now.... maybe the one with the Texan oil baron and his sidekick Maverick and the "carrot gusher."

At least I don't drive and watch cartoons at the same time.

[spankybird]

HI Buckeye,
The Pic is there

good news

tom

[Buckeye Riveter]

What's wrong with you guys?! Everyone knows that railroad security is the tightest possible. You can never get near the cars to do any damage. Someone is always watching you.


If the photo above doesn't appear, I'm going to look real stupid with this tongue in cheek reply.

[Kooljock1]

Hey Gary,

My wife said to me the other day that she was late.

Late for what? I says...

Thankfully, the situation has changed. Can you relate?

Jon [8D]

[superwarp1]

Remember all these news show put there own spin on things. Don't believe in everything you read or hear.

Gary

[Anonymous]

You nailed it CNW...i'm with Jon on this one.

[Anonymous]

I'll see if I can take some time out to watch this. It usually takes me an hour and a half to watch 60 minutes.


...keep the rails polished...[^]

[Kooljock1]

CNW,

Ya nailed that one! It only serves as a primer for terrorists. Kind of like that Clancy book about terrorists flying planes into buildings.

"Here's what really scares us! Gee I hope they don't try it!". Sometimes I wonder who's side they're on.

Jon [8D]

[cnw1995]

I've seen a preview - and was disappointed - hysteria from uninformed reporters - along the lines of "See this bridge! They can blow up this bridge! See this tunnel! They can blow up this tunnel! See us place a simulated bomb here and there..." Very similar to local sweeps - 'the horror rolling through your town' on tank trains, replete with industry talking heads saying - not our fault, we can't do anything - give us more $.

[FJ and G]

sorry, Spanky, I see that it is THIS wednesday. I'll tune in.

Isn't 60 min great?! I think one of the dudes is 80 years old or something and he's still chasing fire engines (an endearing term journalists sometimes use for reporters)

[spankybird]

Hi dav,

60 Minutes II is on this Wednesday 3-31-04 at 8:00pm EST.

It shoudl be worth watching, I think??

tom

[FJ and G]

Tom,

I only caught part of the show on Sunday. I think 60 min II might be another day of the week? Anyway, the system is very vulnerable and I'm glad the issue is finally getting the attention it deserves.

dav