Lionel 665 ?

[gwg50]

Hey guys my smoke unit quit in my 665 it was the pill type. How hard is it to put a new one in. I'm looking at it and it don't look to hard should I get the pill again or the liquid type Olsen has both.  THANKS Gary

[Anonymous]

Gary,

        I'd go with the pill type.  It is much more durable than the liquid type.  Do you want to replace the smoke unit, or rebuild it?  Either option is easy.

[3railguy]

I prefer the liquid type over the pill type because the pills cake up over time on the element reducing smoke output and cause the element to overheat and fry. They also cake up around the stack. However, I have never tried the new pills that came out recently by Trains Unlimited (I think that's who makes them). I do not know what kind of residue they leave if any. Also, the pills are more costly to use than fluid. Plus, fluid is more readily available and comes in a variety of aromas. The cons to fluid are it spills out of the unit if you don't handle the engine carefully and it doesn't keep in the pill tradition..Also with fluid units, I understand it is not a good idea to run them dry. But then I've never fried one running it dry. After weighing the pros and cons, my nod goes to the fluid. Other things to consider are some smoke fluids will work with pill type units and what do your other engines use?

[cwburfle]

Smoke pellet stuff building up or caking around the elements happens when the owner puts too many pellets in the smoke unit. It takes a little time for a smoke unit to heat up enough to melt and vaporize the pellet. Usually there is some pellet left in the smoke unit when an engine is put away or parked. Owners should give a locomotve a chance to re-melt what's in there before adding a new one.

I cannot count the number of smoke unit's I've serviced with way too much smoke stuff in there.

One cannot "hurt" a pellet typle smoke unit by running it out of smoke material. They smoke better with less smoke stuff, rather than more.

 

[gwg50]

I see that one of the wires in the element is broken so witch way should I go repair or replace. I know that Olsen has them for 22.50. I don't know where to just get the element and how to get it apart. And my other engines use liquid. Thanks Gary

[3railguy]

If it is broke at the end of its winding, you can try unwinding it one revolution giving you a new pigtail lead. This effects the resistance creating more heat and could fry the element if you are not careful. Soldering the element wire is tricky as it could short under the right circumstances.

I can't think off hand who sells the element itself. It's been a number of years since I rebuilt one and I think I did it twice before I got it right. I found it less troublesome to just replace the entire unit. If you rebuild it, you want to get the piston and chamber squeaky clean. I've found carburetor or injector cleaner works at disolving any old residues.

[sir james I]

I'd replace it with the liquid type,your already using liquid and smoke pills are ex$$.plus the liquid type should be half that price. to remove the metal cover you may have to heat it with a lighter or hot solder gun as the pellet reside may be caked on around it.It WILL come off.

[gwg50]

Thanks guys I think I'll just get a new one from Olsen.

[EIS2]

You can use the smoke fluid in the pill smoke units.  I do and it works just fine.

Earl

[BDT in Minnesota]

John brings up a good point about running the liquid units dry....I am aware that there are different versions of liquid smoke units that Lionel has used in the past....My little 233 that I received for Christmas in 1961 has never missed a puff....In 1985 a bought a new 8204 for my kids. It would smoke up a storm and I was quite impressed...Until it was left in neutral with the track power cranked up to run some accessories....Heavy smoke rolled out of the stack for a short time, then nothing.....The smoke unit was totally destroyed.... and definitely was not dry....The LW transformer that was being used, on full throttle,  may have been putting out too high of a voltage for that smoke unit; it sure did smoke..but that could have been a defective unit, also.

Getting back to the 2065 smoke unit,,if converted to liquid, are there any issues that anyone has experienced requarding a smoke unit overheating while in neutral????  Also I have used a few drops of liquid in some of my pill type locomotives with good results as far as smoke..Any comments on this??        BDT

 

[EIS2]

The smoke units on Williams engines do not have an on/off switch and the directions say that it is OK to run them dry.  All of my postwar engines run with dry smoke units most of the time.  I only occasionally put smoke fluid in them.

If an engine has an on/off switch for the smoke unit, I would turn it off when not using smoke.  Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.  I don't think it is good for our lungs to use a lot of smoke anyway.

Earl

[sir james I]

The liquid element works the same way as the pill type, the wire is wraped around a core instead of flat,they both work like a toaster element. Either type is less likely to burn out than the newer wick kind.(dry) But like a light bulb they can burn out.

[billbarman]

i also prefer the liquid smoke unit, i have the same problem with my 681.

[BDT in Minnesota]

i also prefer the liquid smoke unit, i have the same problem with my 681.

 

I am inclined to agree with you...I have locos built by MarX, American Flyer, K Line, MTH and Lionel that have liquid smoke units...Lionel discontinued use of the pill units some time ago....So Lionel , along with the other manufacturers, made this choice to go with liquid over pill units...So this choice appears to be in general agreement.....

I can see the reasoning in retaining a pill unit in a postwar locomotive if the owner wishes to keep the train all original, or as close as possible.

I could not justify the removal of a good working pill unit to replace it with a liquid unit, when the pill unit will work just fine with a few drops of smoke fluid..

As far as repairing a loco with a non-working smoke unit,, I would be inclined to put in a liquid smoke unit and add a small switch under the cab (or inside) to turn the smoke unit off when not wanted... When I do things like this, I save the original parts, as someday a new owner may wish to undo my modifications....