Woodland Scenics Inclines and Risors for O Gauge

[CNJfan]

Wes,

I used the  Woodland Scenics foam board. I would say you could use the 1/2" board but I am not sure it will bend well around curves if you have any where the inclines will be. I bought my Woodland Scenics stuff from Wholesale Trains. http://www.wholesaletrains.com/ You can shop for what you need at  http://www.woodlandscenics.com/ and buy from Wholesale Trains. (Or wherever you wish of course)

If you would like some pictures of the method I used, let me know and I will email them to you.

Tim C.

[Wes Whitmore]

I would love to see how you did it.  Please send pictures!

So I have 9 modules soldered up here.  The total string drops from 19V to around 8.5volts.  That's low enough to stop this train, but I think I am going to add a couple more in case I need them.  I was looking for a multi-position switch, and all I found so far was this 6 position radio shack switch.  It does all I need for testing.  When I'm all said in done, I hope to use the switch to dial in just the last part of the loop, right before it stops.  Pardon all of the alligator clips...

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804381325140/1

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804381298575/0

 

Here is a link to the video-

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2401188624383212300&hl=en

Thanks for everything.  It's really starting to come together!

Thanks,

Wes

 

[Wes Whitmore]

I ended up using 12 rectifier modules to get down the the voltage that I wanted.  I plan on using various voltages thoughout the layout, controlled with a 6 position rotory switch for each area.

I have the "train station loading area" wired up and it works like a champ.  I have it sitting at around 4 volts right now so the train stays on, waiting. 

I need a little help wiring up a relay though.  Can someone tell me how I can make a ground trip relay that will normally pass the 5V, and then when another train makes contact to ground on a trigger track, throw the relay to the higher voltage?  I'll also need a relay to reset that relay for the next pass.  Is there a way to do this without mechanical relays?  After this step, and I probably run two trains at the same time without user intervention!

Thanks,
Wes

[lionelsoni]

Here's a general way to wire a relay so that it can be latched or released by control rails (isolated outside rail sections):

Connect one terminal of an incandescent lamp to the relay supply voltage.  Connect the other lamp terminal to one end of the relay coil.  Connect the other end of the coil through a normally-open ("form-A") contact on the relay to ground, that is, the outside rails, which should also be the return side of the relay supply voltage.  Now grounding one end of the relay coil will operate the relay and cause it to latch on.  Grounding the other end of the coil will release the relay.

Now for the relay and its supply.  You can go with AC; but cheap low-voltage AC relays are hard to find.  Unless you use HVAC relays, which operate on 24 volts.  This is a little high unless you have a V or Z transformer.  But the HVAC distributors of course sell 24-volt transformers as well as relays.

Or you can go with DC.  You can use a DC supply, returned to the outside rails just like your transformers, without any problem.  Or you can use an AC supply and put an individual bridge rectifier on every DC-relay coil.

As for that lamp, it should be rated for the same voltage as the relay supply and large enough that it doesn't drop very much voltage when the relay is operated.

Another approach is to use a mechanically latching relay.  Atlas makes such a thing, which they call a "snap relay":

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/atl/atl200.htm

This probably is meant for 12-volts DC.  I would worry that it might not stand continuous operation of the coils, which might be the case with a control-rail application.  You could get around this if necessary with a capacitive-discharge circuit, which is a whole other topic.

[Wes Whitmore]

I think I would like to stick with DC.  I do have an N-scale DC transformer (actually AC too) that I could dedicate to this project.  I have been looking at various car audio relay circuits and thinking about how to incorporate them into this design.  i would have one section of track that is grounded to close the coil and apply the 15+ volts to the 5V section of track to release the train, and then I would need to have another one that is some distance in front of the train that will reset that relay for the next train.  It seems pretty easy, I just need to figure out the relays.

Wes

[lionelsoni]

Wes, the scheme with the lamp that I described works with either AC or DC.

[Wes Whitmore]

Bob,

What does the bulb do?

I tried to draw this out on a 12VDC SPDT relay with 5 positions.  I'm learning slowly, but the coil is terminal 85 and 86, the 30 is the voltage that I want to send somewhere, and 87A is where 30 goes when the coil isn't energized, and 87 is when it is.  I could have that wrong.  Assuming I have it right, can you walk me through it (or a diagram). 

Thanks,

Wes

[Wes Whitmore]

 

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804392192354/0

This is kinda what I was looking at. I wasn't going to use a switch, but I was going to apply constant voltage at the switch, but pulse the ground to activate the latch.  The only problem is that it needs to activate once when grounded, and not any more at that point of the track, so the wheels don't keep flipping it back and forth.  Maybe one more relay?

Or you can straighten me out on your easier idea...

Thanks,
Wes

[lionelsoni]

You should need only one (DPDT) relay.  The power supply for the relay is returned to the outside rails, which I will call "ground".  The lamp and the relay are wired in series across the supply as follows:  supply--lamp--control rail "off"--relay coil--control rail "on"--normally open relay contact--ground.

Notice that, if the relay is not operated, it stays that way, because the relay contact is open, preventing any current from flowing in the coil.  But, if the relay is operated, then the contact is closed and current can flow in the coil, keeping the relay operated.  Therefore the circuit is "bi-stable", that is, has two stable states.

If the relay is not operated, putting a ground momentarily on control rail "on" bypasses the normally-open contact and causes the relay to operate.  Once it is operated, the ground can go away, because the closed contact keeps that end of the coil grounded.  The control rail would be grounded by the train wheels passing over it.

If the relay is operated, putting a ground momentarily on control rail "off" causes both ends of the coil to be grounded.  The coil current drops to zero; and the relay releases.  Once it is released, the ground can go away because the open contact keeps any current from flowing.

While control rail "off" is grounded, the lamp will light.  You could use a resistor instead of a lamp.  But an incandescent lamp has the useful property that its resistance goes up by something like a factor of ten when it is lit compared to when it is dark.  A lamp will therefore draw only about one-tenth the current that a resistor would when releasing the relay.  So the lamp should be rated for the voltage that you are using for the relay and should be just large enough that it is dark when the relay is operated, so that it does not use up a significant amount of the supply voltage.

The reason for the DPDT contacts is so that one contact can be used for the latching circuit just described and the other for switching the track voltage.

[Wes Whitmore]

As you could probably tell, I probably understand drawings better...I'll keep trying to decode what you are saying, and see if I can come up with something on paper.

While you were typing that up, I was trying to do the same function using 12VDC SPDT relays.  If you would, please look over this and tell me if it will work.   I have a couple of these relays already.

I'm unsure of what will happen to the coils of the trigger relays as the trains go across.  It may trip at every wheelset crosses it, but I would think that it would probably just stay engaged until the last train leaves the 10" section of track I was planning on using for the trigger rails, especially if there are no more than 10" in between the wheelsets. Rardless, the voltage sent to the "train station" track section should stay until the second trigger relay has been grounded.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804393144914/0

Thanks,
Wes

[lionelsoni]

Wes, your link doesn't work for me.

I sent you a schematic by e-mail.

[Wes Whitmore]

Please try again.  I also posted your diagram and sent you the link.

Thanks
Wes

[lionelsoni]

Here is Wes's link to my schematic:

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804393302960/0

The thing on the left is a battery, representing the DC supply that Wes proposes to use.  The three heavy lines on the right are the track.  (The negative battery terminal should be connected to the outside rails--my bad.)  K1 is the relay.  The box is the relay coil.  Above the coil is the incandescent lamp.  The two control rails are shown as short isolated sections of one outside rail.  The lower one operates the relay; the upper one releases it.

There is presumably another contact on the relay, not shown, that is used to switch the track voltage as needed.

[Wes Whitmore]

I successfully got two trains running on the same track.  I did it with a MTH infra-red track section and the rectifier module strip that Bob told me how to build.  It works really well for my needs.  In the future, I'll build adjustment controls into the control center to adjust for different trains. 

The track has three voltage sections.  The bulk of the layout is running at a pretty high voltage.  It's as fast as you want the train to go down and up the hill.  Once it passes the high switch, it enters a slow down area behind the station.  The IR trigger is on the corner of the loop, and when triggered applies a good amount of starting voltage to the parked train.  The train takes off out of the station at just a slightly less voltage than the long hill climb.  The train continues around the curve and the timer stops applying the starter voltage at the station a couple of seconds before the train reaches the station, so it stops after crawling around the curve and entering the station.  It's triggered by the train it just released after it comes back up the hill.

Anyhow, here is the video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4007334594345137561

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5679927689303934652

 

Thanks,

Wes