John
I think I've seen it rated at 50 watts(about right for the weight), 15VA, 7.5VA, 7.5VA/50 watts, colored in red, blue, black & white. They all appeared to be AC, though, regardless of the Greenberg designation, due to the lack of the polarity/reverse switch, which was built in to the case - usually a little red slide switch - with DC transformers in DC starter sets, in the same molded case. Some of the DC packs also had 4 posts - DC for track & AC for accessories - again, same molded case.
The white version was in the 1991 Girl's Set re-issue.
Others:
I hoping Bob Nelson can chime in on Lionel's cryptic ratings from this period... 50 watts equals 7.5 VA? I don't think this can be close to right... That would make a CW-80 533 watts!
Rob
John,
Have you checked the output with a multimeter to see if it is A.C. or D.C?
Sometimes a diode or two can go bad giving you A.C. instead of D.C. or partial A.C.
Just checked the Greenberg book and the 4851 is a D.C. transformer from either 1985 to 1991 or from 1994 to 1996, very low value around $10.00, would suspect wattage output near 50 watts or less. My personal suggestion if your transformer is not working correctly is to replace it with one from MRC(Model Rectifier Corporation).
Lee F.
gottcent,
This has got to be one of the more confusing threads currently on this forum. Somebody needs to clear this up.
Meanwhile, why not post exactly what it says on the top (and wherever else there is information and/or specifications) of your transformer?
rob,
Actually the CW-80 does put out 533 peak watts, but they are tempered by the action of its flywheel, which you can hear if you put your ear up close.
Bob Nelson
OK, (sigh) I'll try to clear it up. After meandering all over the Lionel website and "Googling" everything I could think of, I believe this to be true:
I found no strictly DC transformers (power packs) and only one AC-DC transformer in the 1990 to present era: the 4060. It is easily distinguished from the 4851 because it has four output posts -- 2 in each upper corner when observing so that the embossed printing is right-side up.
By contrast, the 4851 (in white) came with trhe 1990 girl's set. #11722 which also featured the 18014 locomotive. The owner's manual for that set was #71-1722-250 dated 1990. The manual is a bit hard to read in some places, including one critical one, but I think it says:
Input 120 VAC 60 Hz only AC output 7-19 V. 15 VA total
[It's the output voltage range that is hard to read, but it is clear that the output is Alternating Current ,aka AC.]
The primary source for my conclusion is:
http://www.lionel.com/products/productnavigator/InstructionManuals/71-1722-250.pdf
OK gottcent, bfskinner has gone out & found everything in detail that I imparted earlier, including the cryptic ratings of the white 4851 vs the blue, black, & red ones at 7.5VA & 50 watts. Here is a pic of a 4060 DC/AC w/ 4 posts & the little red reverse switch mentioned above:
We need to hear from you exactly what information is imprinted/molded into the case of yours, inc. the color & features(posts & switches, eg.) to help you out any more than bfskinner has done already.
What equipment are you running, etc., too.
Thanks, fellows. OK--here is what it says on top of my transformer, which is black, and looks exactly like the photo of the black unit in the series of pictures one of you posted. It has only two terminals and does NOT have a red reversing switch. Reading from top down, it says: "Type 4851/15 VA/120 v/60 Hz/AC current only/Secondary voltage 7 - 19/Trainmaster Toy Transformer/OFF/Mph [range of numbers]/CAUTION ELECTRIC TOY" I have tested it with a multimeter and it is definitely putting out AC. Also, this is not the first example of this transformer I've come across. Could it be a simple case of the Greenberg books being wrong when they call this a DC transformer? And/or, could Lionel have re-used the number, so that what might have been DC in the eighties or early nineties became AC once they stopped selling DC only starter sets?
It looks like Greenberg's is wrong, & you have an AC transformer there... David Doyle will probably get it right!
I have a lionel 4851 transformer. It is ac, I would like to phase it with my other lionel ac transformers. I am not sure which pole is the common. Tried connecting each pole to common on other transformers one at a time, but no arching with either pole. Is it non polar?
You can use either terminal as the common. Why do you want it to be in-phase with your other transformers?
The transformer needs to be in phase with the transformer for your track only if you are going to connect the common wire from both transformers together via the track.
If you are going to use the transformer only for accessories that do not connect to the track, then the transformers do not need to be in phase.
To phase the transformers, set both transformers to a similar voltage and connect one wire from each transformer together. Touch the other wires together momentarily. If you get a big spark, then reverse the AC plug of 1 transformer in the wall, and try again. The spark should be small.
When you get the transformers phased, mark the plugs so that they go in the outlet the same way in the future.
Transformers have no 'polarity' like a DC power pack, but they do have a hot and neutral. Anything AC operated does not care which way the power is hooked up to it.
Larry
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