Hi Loisj. I put a materiel called Homosote and it's perfect! It has a color that I think won't need painting. It's a very earth-like color. It's gray and light brown dirt like color. It's like a card board like material. Lots of train layout professonal people use it for this purpose. It comes in 4X8 sheets at lumber yards. Not everybody sells it so you got to look for it. It also makes your trains very quite. Reuben
definately use either homasote or, the hardware supply places also sell extruded foam in either pink or blue that does need a simple coat of earth tone paint, but it is light and easy to work with, just use foam compatible construction adhesive. One issue with Fastrack is the noise level. The above methods help a lot with this. I am using the foam with about $2500.00 of Fastrack, while I am a big proponent of it, I do admit it is on the loud side when running trains at any speed above a crawl. Some use carpet padding under the track bed and say it helps too. Lastly, do not put screws all the way from the track to the plywood, this will cause the noise issue again. You can just screw into either the homasote or foam board, they hold well.
Good Luck,
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
Lois, I have some questions that will help with the answer...
Is this a permanent layout you are planning? Does it need to be movable or portable? Do you have your own home or are you in a apartment, condo or duplex? Will this be an "adult" layout or a layout that needs to be kid-friendly?
Now, any track system will be noisey if the track is screwed directly into plywood without some kind of noise barrier material. If you are in an apartment or have neighbors below you, noise level (rumble of trains) will be more important than if the layout is going to be in a basement. Plywood is heavy, as is homosote. If you think you may be moving, or want the layout to be movable, using styrofoam insulation board is a good course to take. I'm am currently building a new layout with my old 027 track from the prior layout (the old one took water damage from a leaking skylight) using a pine frame with blue foam board glued to the frame. There are some small drawbacks to using foam, but they are easily overcome as I have found out.
One advantage of FasTrack is that it does not necessarily have to be screwed down. The track stays together well, and comes apart more easily than the comparable MTH version. If your layout is intened as a family layout with kids involved you may want to consider carpet padding on top of your proposed plywood surface with indoor/outdoor porch carpet on top of this for a final surface. You could use either grey, brown or green. Not screwing down the track will allow you to add to and change the layout as interest grows and money allows.
Neil Young (part owner of Lionel) had a layout built for his own record company office (Vapor Records) using plywood, carpet padding and then attached the track using nylon wire bundle cables. There was an article on this in a past issue of Classic Toy Trains.
I don't know you'd want to ballast outside the FasTrack since the track already has a built in roadbed with a ballasted appearance. If you need some layout ideas for FasTrack, you can check out this web site, which also has some 3D illustrations of the layout plans:
http://www.thortrains.net/marx/48fastrack1.html
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
I would have liked to use homasote on my layout, but they don't sell it anywhere around me; the folks at Home Depot and at Lowes looked at me like I grew a third ear when I asked for it. So I settled for some 1/4 inch peg board (no holes) from Lowes and will be laying that on top of 2 inch insulation board from Home Depot (Lowes only carries 3/4 for $10 per sheet). Home Depot's 2 inch sheet is $19 or so at last check.
Now my table is designed to be portable so I will be anchoring the top layer (peg board) to the 2x4 frame (sandwiching the insulation board) with drywall screws around the outside perimeter of the benchwork. I will be using liquid nails to bond the insulation board to the 2x4 frame and the surface layer. If noise is an issue for you I would suggest something soft under the Fastrack, because that track acts as its own sound amplifier; homasote may help with some of that noise but the Fastrack itself works as its own drum; which would seem to me to be very difficult to quiet down. Anchoring the Fastrack to the benchwork would only seem to increase the level of noise out-put.
I wouldn't worry about adding ballast to the Fastrack. I have seen some Fastrack that has had different color ballast glued to the plastic ballast, but I'm not sure how well that looks or how well it holds up.
Oh yeah, that thortrains.com website that was mentioned above is a great resource and taught me quite a bit about model trains very quickly. Their layouts are great too, many of which are the same or similar layouts that are printed in the books that sell for way too much at the LHS, and free in my book is always good.
ATSJer,
I had the same problem when trying to find homasote down here in south Florida! It seems that people don't know what homasote is other than model railroaders. Gave up on finding homasote and just attached track to the plywood after putting down a grass mat from Life Like.
Lee F.
Hi Brian:
This is an adult layout, permanent in a home. It will be 32' x 26'. We do not have all of our track yet, but have run a train on what we do have and do not find noise level objectionable. This is in the basement with a carpeted floor which perhaps helps a bit. We had left-over carpet padding but decided it wasn't necessary and tossed it out. Thanks for your website suggestion; will check it out.
re Homasote: They might know it by it's new trade name, 440 Sound Barrier.
You can try using cushioned shelf liner as an isolation barrier between the track and the plywood. Not the ribbed kind, it's smooth sided and is available in 24"x40" sheets. Contact markets as Solid Ultra Grip Liner. Non adheasive but has anti skid properties, cuts with scissors, available in white, tan, and black. The black material also makes for nice ashphalt roads!
Here's a link to a site where you can learn more about Homasote and a dealer locator is also available.
http://www.homasote.com/sb.html
Jerry
Judging by your questions and responses to some of the posts, I take it you are #1 new at this, #2 eager to get on with a nice size layout. A few suggestions: First, TM has put out a video called Building an O Gauge Layout that will answer a lot of questions and perhaps give answers to questions that you have yet to think about. Secondly, if you have a good hobby shop that has a O gauge layout, or perhaps a railroad club nearby that you can go and see some trains running to give you some ideas, and perhaps hook you up with some people who can give you direct input to your layout. The big advantage to both of these is that you can often learn by seeing it get done. The above video can be purchased at Amazon, but I found it at some "Oldies DVD/CD" outlet for about $12. I think Amazon will have it for around $19.
Please don't take my comments/observations as any kind of put down, just want to get you the best information. By your post about having such a large layout, you want to do it right and avoid lots of expenditures that are wrong. That being said, you certainly did come to the right place to ask questions and Chat with like minded O gauge folks. Another quick suggestion is that at the top of the forum list, is a series of threads that answer a number of questions that have been answered already and perhaps you can find some answers there as opposed to waiting for replies to your posts.
Good Luck and welcome,
traindaddy1 wrote:32' x 26' I can only dream!
Tell me about it! And 32'x26' with Fastrack...well...$$$
The track and switches themselves would pay for everything I have planned for my 4x8, and maybe even a second 4x8 expansion. More power to ya! Just be sure to post the pictures so I can drool. K?
My son has just come home from work and asked me to include the following facts:
We are building L-girder open grid which requires plywood be cut at 4 1/4 inches which leaves approximately 3/16 of an inch of plywood showing on each side of the track. Our goal is to hide this 3/16 of an inch of plywood.
In this case, I would certainly go with the extruded foam and you can buy a foam cutting knife from a hobby store. Cut the foam board the same width as the plywood that you are putting down. Using the construction adhesive (it will specifically say that it can be used on foam), adhere the foam to the plywood. You will be able to use adhesive to attach scenery as well to the foam board. Paint the foam an earth tone color, often you can get cheap "mistake" paint from any one of the home improvement type places.
I do not recommend putting Fastrack directly on top of the plywood. You will definitely regret such a decision! FasTrack with all it's merits has one major weakness and that is it the way it's designed with hollow rails directly attacted to the plastic roadbead acts like a sound amplifier.
What I would do is put a layer of 4X8 Homosote or a 4X8 sheet of Celotex. Both will absorb sound and help make your fastrack very quiet. In my area, I can't get Homosote, so I am using 4X8 Celotex and it's excellent and possibly superior to traditional Homosote. Both will hold screws and let you walk or lean on it without distorting it. Celotex has one other advantage in my opinion, it's about $8 a sheet vs. $28+ for Homosote.
If you know that you will never walk, crawl, lean on your layout for any reason, Then foam would be a good sound barrier.
From here, If you go the Celotex / Homosote route, put a coat of cheap ground color paint to seal it and then add your ground covering or in my case, I just added a green indoor / outdoor carpet. Both can be bought at Home Depot.
If you put Fastrack on carpet, it stays put and you won't need any screws. If you lay the fastrack directly on the sound deadening board, use screw sparingly or glue / tack the track down. I would recommend Silicone II sealant because it can be easily removed and track can be recovered yet it will hold your track in place forever until you are ready to remove it.
Also, Atlas is releasing a new track system that looks a lot like Fastrack but with solid T rail which should make it a much more quiet track system as well as realistic appearance. It is suppose to be compatible with fastrack with adapter tracks...
First let me say that the shear size of your layout is impressive. That being said and being new to this as well is extruded foam the pink or blue building foam use in contruction? Comes in various thicknesses up to 2" I think? Also, do screws hold in this stuff and in the ceiling tiles Frank uses?
If you use Homosote or Celotex, what is the minimum thickness of plywood for a traditional full sheet top (not cookie-cutter) would you use? I do not know about Celotex, but the minimum Homosote is 3/4" and heavy.
The new Atlas track has rails that are "T" shaped but they are not advertised as "solid". In fact Atlas makes a point of noting their "premium" track is solid nickel silver or stainless steel.
From Atlas web site:
(Pre-production sample roadbed shown. Note: Rails shown are solid rail. For final product, T-shaped hollow rails will be used.)
ezmike, yes, the extruded foam board is the pink or blue that they use in construction. In this part of the country, we can only get upto 3/4" thick. For cookie cutter method, I would go with the foam as cutting homasote is very dusty and messy. Use the 1/2 to 3/4" thick foam for under the tracks, and yes, it holds screws, but don't have them too long that they get into the plywood or the noise comes back. Then, if available, you can use the thicker foam for scenic.
Dennis,
Thanks, would the same thickness apply if I'm building a table not a cookie cutter bench? And... what is the min. thickness plywood you would recommend for a layout either a "L" of approx. 14' L with a 6' leg or a "U" approx 12' x 6', keeping it 4' deep on both or what the room will best accomodate?
Do you recommend just laying the foam sheets out on the tabletop and having everything the same height, track and buildings/scenary, or having the track lower than the scenary? BTW, I'm using tubular throughout.
Mike
Mike, I used 1/2" plywood with L-Girder spaced 16" OC. I also had a main "beam" going down the center of a 6' wide span, so very well braced. I am using fastrack, so I have a bit of a space between the track and the foam board. For me, this means that I can get away with 1" screws, but in your case, I would either go with 1" of foam. The way I have my layout, I mounted 3/4" foam board on the plywood. I have extra foam that I am using to build up scenery. While the track will not have a grade, the surrounding area will and will make the terrane look natural. One advantage to using 3/4" foam, is that many of the accessories have 3/4" bases and so I can hide the base below grade. What you could do in your situation, is to use 1/2" directly on the plywood, then cover it with another piece, 3/4". This would give you the spacing you need for mounting your tubular track. While doing this, you can make some stream beds and lakes, etc, by just cutting away part of the 3/4" foam.
One thing to consider, you should not have to reach further then about 3 feet to get to any point on your layout. Unless you build your whole layout so you can walk on it, you would be well served to figure some access hatches in your plan.
Good luck,
I think I got the concept, 1/2" foam over the plywood and then another layer of 3/4" foam, then mount the track, then when I put up accessories that have a besa I cne recess the base in the layer of 3/4". Buildings will sit directly on top of the 3/4". Streams and lakes can be "dug" right into the 3/4". So I actually wind up with 1 1/4" foam on top of 1/2" ply. Yes?
I know I can find this information somewhere and intend to purchase something that gives me a step by step approach to building the benchwork, layout and scenery. I do plan on L girders with 2x3 and 1x4 too. When you say you used a 6' beam going down the center, do you mean length-wise in the center of the longest measurement?
Mike, it seems you have it right. As to the 6' section mentioned, what I meant is that at the one point, it is 6' across and the length is 16'. Down the 16' length, it is divided by a beam , so that I have 3' on either side. This way I have no wide gaps that are not supported. L-girder is very strong and so you don't need lots of legs to clutter the under layout area. I have wide open areas to allow easy access for electrical runs. My layout benchwork is essentially a 6 x 16 with a 12 x 8 "L". The 12 x 8 area has 2 levels, while the 6 x 16 is mostly a yard with most of the industry area and operating accessories. I have the longest run supported with a 2x4 mounted directly to the rear wall and legs mounted at the two ends on the front side and one more leg mounted where the take off for the L is. Then, I have a somewhat elaborate mounting for the 12x8 area that keeps the legs in about 2 feet from the edges of the layout. This area will be the main viewing area and I wanted to keep the kids from kicking legs and causing an earthquake. It also allows me to make suspended shelves as I plan to make some loops under the main level for the kids to run some trains.
Quite impressive, lots more room than I have right now. I do have room for expansion once my son finishes school and moves out. Then I'd be able to extend the leg or legs, depending on the design I choose, anywhere from a few feet to several feet. The room is about 14x12 with the doorway and an adjacent closet door in the corner of the interior 12' wall. So when and if the time comes I have options. I want to run a few lines at the same time with yards as well so I'll have to do some up and down too. There' also plans for a trolley and gang car line. I have much work ahead of me and plan to purchase one or more layout plan references for ideas.
Anyway, thanks.
Mike, do yourself a favor and check out some books for other scales. John Armstrong and others have made some fantastic layout plans that, even if you don't use the whole plan, you can get inspiration for a O gauge plan. Kalmbach has some good books too. I have the benchwork book, wiring book, scenery, and several others. You may find some at the local library. Lastly, I have both the Fastrack book and the Building an O Gauge Layout video. I went through lots of information before buying the first piece of lumber.
That's my plan. Thanks for you time and advice.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month