A problem with air whistle...

[Cesco]

Hi, i'm an italian railroader and i love Lionel Toy Train (pre and post war). In my country there isn't this great loomotives and trains. I bouth a locomotive by an online store... know this loco have a non function air whistle on tender... anyone have a schematics of little electronic circuit in the tender ?!? is a very mistake... last evening i play with this loco and always works well... the day after the whistle is dead... please give me same suggestion...

have a great day and sorry for my english :-)

francesco 

[Nick12DMC]

to the forum Francesco.

First a few questions.

1) Are you using the Lionel CW-80 transformer?

2) Is it a air whistle with motor in the tender or a Trainsounds circuit board?

3) Has the whistle just stopped working? Did it work OK? (you say it always works well)

Check that the wires have not come detached from the pick up rollers on the tender. Also check them for dirt.

Certain Lionel items do not like the 50Hz power we have here in Europe.

Known problem items are:-

CW-80 transformer-symptom continuous whistle/horn and bell sounds (if bell fitted) transformer can totally fail if used on 50Hz power for a extended period.

Trainsounds- symptom continuous whistle/horn and bell sounds (if bell fitted)

TMCC-certain circuit board versions exhibit strange behaviour, locos uncontrolable or "run away"

Nick 

[Buckeye Riveter]

fancesco,

(Nick, using a web translater, this is what you said, I hope.)

In primo luogo alcune domande.

1) state utilizzando il trasformatore di Lionel CW-80?

2) è un'aria fischia con il motore nell'offerta o in un bordo del circuito di Trainsounds?

3) fischiano appena ha smesso di funzionare? Ha funzionato BENE? (dite che funziona sempre bene)

Controlli che i legare non siano venuto detached dal selezionamento sui rulli sull'offerta. Inoltre controllili per vedere se c'è sporcizia. Determinati articoli di Lionel non gradiscono l'alimentazione che 50Hz abbiamo qui in Europa. Gli articoli conosciuti di problema sono: - CW-80 il trasformatore-sintomo trasformatore continuo dei suoni della flangia e di whistle/horn (se flangia misura) può completamente venire a mancare se usato su alimentazione 50Hz per un periodo esteso. Sintomo suoni continui della flangia e di whistle/horn di Trainsounds- (se flangia misura) Le versioni del bordo del circuito di TMCC-certain esibiscono il comportamento sconosciuto, i locos uncontrolable o "il funzionamento via"

[Nick12DMC]

Thanks Buckeye

Nick

[Cesco]

ok buck, don't mind for translation, i understood fine this language :-)

i reponde you in red into your questions...

 

" border="0" /> to the forum Francesco. Many thanks, this is my very first time i write here

First a few questions.

1) Are you using the Lionel CW-80 transformer? yes, the black trafo with green led :-)

2) Is it a air whistle with motor in the tender or a Trainsounds circuit board?
air whistle is with a motor action in the tender (and command by transformer)

3) Has the whistle just stopped working? Did it work OK? (you say it always works well)

the whistle work well wen i bouth this loco (a mounth ago, than as just sopped working without any broken or short circuits. Last evening i have play with my loco and all features works well, the day after the whistle is gone...

Check that the wires have not come detached from the pick up rollers on the tender. Also check them for dirt. Did it... is all right and tested by a tester !!!

Certain Lionel items do not like the 50Hz power we have here in Europe.

Known problem items are:-

CW-80 transformer-symptom continuous whistle/horn and bell sounds (if bell fitted) transformer can totally fail if used on 50Hz power for a extended period. ok, what's your suggestion ?!?

Trainsounds- symptom continuous whistle/horn and bell sounds (if bell fitted) no trainsound

TMCC-certain circuit board versions exhibit strange behaviour, locos uncontrolable or "run away"

Nick

 

[lionelsoni]

Cesco,

The whistle motor runs from the track voltage and is turned on by a relay in the tender.  The first thing to do is to test the relay.  Open the tender and put it on the track.  Turn the track voltage up.  Then push the relay contact closed with your finger.

If the whistle doesn't blow, the problem is with the motor.  Check its wiring again.  Check the carbon brushes.

If the whistle blows, try operating the whistle control on the transformer.

If the relay armature moves, check the contact to be sure it is closing.

If the relay armature doesn't move, the problem is with the relay or with the whistle control on the transformer.  Check the whistle control by connecting a DC (not AC) voltmeter to the track.  Although there is AC voltage on the track, you should see no DC voltage until you operate the whistle control; then you should see several volts.  If not, the problem is with the transformer.

In bocca al lupo!

[Back2Trains]

Check to see if the wires from the transformer to the track are connected correctly. If you are not sure, reverse the connections at the transformer and try again. Air whistles with circuit boards must have the wires connected correctly or they will not work. I don't know how the terminals are arranged on a CW-80 but the wire from the common terminal should be connected to the outside rail and the wire from the hot terminal to the center rail.

[Cesco]

Cesco,

The whistle motor runs from the track voltage and is turned on by a relay in the tender.  The first thing to do is to test the relay.  Open the tender and put it on the track.  Turn the track voltage up.  Then push the relay contact closed with your finger.

The strange think i have looked when i bouth the locomotive, is the whistle work ever and than keep silence when i push the buttom... this is very strange... but now doesn't work and this is the priority problem...

If the whistle doesn't blow, the problem is with the motor.  Check its wiring again.  Check the carbon brushes.

I have opened the tender and watching the components... i try to power the motor and i see that motor working with difficult... the motor function in AC or DC ?!? (i think DC and in AC with the command board in the tender and trafo). Did you have a schematics of this board ?!? what is this ?!? 

If the whistle blows, try operating the whistle control on the transformer.

I'll try to open the transformer

If the relay armature moves, check the contact to be sure it is closing.

If the relay armature doesn't move, the problem is with the relay or with the whistle control on the transformer.  Check the whistle control by connecting a DC (not AC) voltmeter to the track.  Although there is AC voltage on the track, you should see no DC voltage until you operate the whistle control; then you should see several volts.  If not, the problem is with the transformer.

I'll make other controls to my materials... i hope to give you a right notice :-) 

In bocca al lupo!

Many thanks for your help and thanks for "in bocca al lupo"... i need it !!! :-)

[Nick12DMC]

Cesco,

The whistle motor runs from the track voltage and is turned on by a relay in the tender.  The first thing to do is to test the relay.  Open the tender and put it on the track.  Turn the track voltage up.  Then push the relay contact closed with your finger.

The strange think i have looked when i bouth the locomotive, is the whistle work ever and than keep silence when i push the buttom... this is very strange... but now doesn't work and this is the priority problem...

If the whistle doesn't blow, the problem is with the motor.  Check its wiring again.  Check the carbon brushes.

I have opened the tender and watching the components... i try to power the motor and i see that motor working with difficult... the motor function in AC or DC ?!? (i think DC and in AC with the command board in the tender and trafo). Did you have a schematics of this board ?!? what is this ?!? 

If the whistle blows, try operating the whistle control on the transformer.

I'll try to open the transformer

If the relay armature moves, check the contact to be sure it is closing.

If the relay armature doesn't move, the problem is with the relay or with the whistle control on the transformer.  Check the whistle control by connecting a DC (not AC) voltmeter to the track.  Although there is AC voltage on the track, you should see no DC voltage until you operate the whistle control; then you should see several volts.  If not, the problem is with the transformer.

I'll make other controls to my materials... i hope to give you a right notice :-) 

In bocca al lupo!

Many thanks for your help and thanks for "in bocca al lupo"... i need it !!! :-)

Francesco,

OK Sounds like you have the 50Hz problems with the CW-80. The whistle would have been going off all the time and maybe stopping when you pressed the whistle button.

It may have burnt out the whistle motor or circuit or the CW-80 whistle control circuit because it was operating all the time. My money is on the CW-80 whistle circuit. A guy in France had the same problem but his CW-80 failed completely.

Trouble is power frequency USA is 60Hz we over here in Europe are 50Hz. 

My son and I operate our trains from a 110V 60Hz pure sine wave inverter. The inverter operates from 12V DC. We have a 300 watt inverter which needs around 25amps of 12V DC to power it.

 

Basicly the equipment above does the following: 230V 50Hz AC to 12V DC-----12V DC to 110V 60Hz AC.

Check the following links

http://www.invertersrus.com/inv300ps.html           The 300W Inverter

http://www.amperordirect.co.uk/products/300W-12v_Power_Supply.asp    The 25 Amp 12V DC Supply

Contact Lionel for a new CW-80 they should send you a new one.  Then Only operate the replacement from a 60Hz power source.

As I said the whistle in the tender may have been damaged but get the power problem sorted first. Then if the whistle still does not work contact Lionel for a new circuit board and whistle motor.

You are not alone with this problem. I have met lots of people online from as far a field as South Africa and Australia with the same frequency problems.

Hope this helps you get your trains running.

Nick

P.S. A Lionel dealer in Germany has a small 150 watt inverter set up that will run a CW80.

https://shop.strato.de/epages/Store.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61036981

 

 

      

[lionelsoni]

Cesco, forget what I said about the relay.  You have a modern locomotive, not a postwar one as I assumed.  ("Postwar" for Lionel trains means just 1945-1969.)

[Cesco]

Francesco,

OK Sounds like you have the 50Hz problems with the CW-80. The whistle would have been going off all the time and maybe stopping when you pressed the whistle button.

It may have burnt out the whistle motor or circuit or the CW-80 whistle control circuit because it was operating all the time. My money is on the CW-80 whistle circuit. A guy in France had the same problem but his CW-80 failed completely.

Yes, i'm sure the problem is in this way: control in trafo, or motor gone :-( 

Trouble is power frequency USA is 60Hz we over here in Europe are 50Hz. 

Damnet, why we can't play with this great trains without any problems ?!? the 50Hz killing my rolling stock... sounds like a thriller, you know ?!? :-) 

My son and I operate our trains from a 110V 60Hz pure sine wave inverter. The inverter operates from 12V DC. We have a 300 watt inverter which needs around 25amps of 12V DC to power it.

This is one of the way i think to keep: the other is a trafo for laboratory with a variable output (the frequency is variable by myself). This item is what i see on a store in my country

Basicly the equipment above does the following: 230V 50Hz AC to 12V DC-----12V DC to 110V 60Hz AC.

Check the following links

http://www.invertersrus.com/inv300ps.html           The 300W Inverter

http://www.amperordirect.co.uk/products/300W-12v_Power_Supply.asp    The 25 Amp 12V DC Supply

Contact Lionel for a new CW-80 they should send you a new one.  Then Only operate the replacement from a 60Hz power source.

As I said the whistle in the tender may have been damaged but get the power problem sorted first. Then if the whistle still does not work contact Lionel for a new circuit board and whistle motor.

You are not alone with this problem. I have met lots of people online from as far a field as South Africa and Australia with the same frequency problems.

Hope this helps you get your trains running.

Nick

P.S. A Lionel dealer in Germany has a small 150 watt inverter set up that will run a CW80.

https://shop.strato.de/epages/Store.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61036981

You are a friend,many thanks for your help, now i can repaire and operate with my favourite Lionel trains :-)