A question about manual switches.

[Anonymous]

Ok, I know I've pestered about my layout plans quite a bit, but I've got yet another question about the manual switches that I'm planning to use.

Now, if I run a train off the main onto one of the loops through the switches (thereby reversing its direction), when the train comes back around to the original switch, do I need to manually shift the switch back or will it automatically move to allow the train to continue?

[otftch]

You will have to switch it manually.There is no derailing feature on manual switches

                                                                                                   Ed

[brianel027]

Hey ATSJer, from your illustration looks like you are planning on using '0' gauge tubular track. The Lionel '0' electric switches have an automatic non-derailing feature, so you might want to selectively consider using a couple of these where it is most critical. Or towards the back of the layout where it is harder to reach them.

The Lionel MPC era swtiches up to current do not have a non-derail function built in, but you can change them. Some of the older Lionel 027 switches (the 1022 type) do have a power cutoff when the train is going into an open switch from the wrong direction.

I'm not as much of an expert on '0' gauge switches, so I'm sure someone elase can chime in. I know you will want to avoid the recent Lionel '0' gauge switches that were made with the extension tracks on them, to change the length of the curve. These switches were a good idea, but poorly made, were very troublesome and were eventually dropped by Lionel because of the troubles and complaints.

 If you are going with 027 track, you might want to look for the improved K-Line 027 switches that were made at the end of the original company's run. These switches were greatly improved and the electric ones were made to run off auxiliary power.

You might want to consider using nylon fishline or bicycle brake cables to operate manual switches from the front of your layout. I've done this with 027 switches. It won't prevent a derailment from a train running into a closed switch from the wrong direction, but it does save money and makes operating the switches a cinch from the front of the layout.

On your layout design, I myself would eliminate the front reverse loop, leaving just the back one. You can always run the train in reverse through the loop to change direction. I'd put a couple more sidings up front in place of that reverse loop so you can have places for operating cars and accessories - which are a big part of the fun for us "toy" train guys.

[chuck]

The only manual throw switches I am aware of that have a reliable automatic non derail function are FastTrack.  These have a ballanced spring loaded pivot point that will throw to the opposite direction when they meet even slight force.  Most manual switches will lock or partially throw resulting in a drerailment.

[lionelsoni]

The points of a Marx remote-control turnout with a low switch machine will also move when pushed.  In fact, that is the only way to move them manually.  However, this may not be true of the manual version of the turnout.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info everyone, this means I'm going to do some refiguring; either on the design of the layout or with how I operate the switches on the back-side.  I kinda like the idea of using the bicycle break cable and lever, not exactly sure what that whole operation would look like, but if I could get one to work on the back side switch then I should be able to replicate that same design for the others as well, giving me a master control station where I can operate my switches manually, but then I might be spending as much to do that as it would cost just to bump up to the remotes.  Time will tell.

[lionelsoni]

Here's Auto Zone's choke cable, for $17:

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=C001&UserAction=performMoreDetail&Parameters=TRUE%7C%7EChoke%7C%7ENONE%7C%7E6%60+Universal+Choke+Cable+Kit.%7C%7ENONE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7E710383%7C%7E1323%7C%7E2450%7C%7ENONE%7C%7E%2416.99%7C%7ENONE%7C%7ENONE%7C%7ENONE%7C%7ENONE%7C%7E0.462%7C%7EEA%7C%7EV%7C%7ESPE%7C%7Etrue

 

[sulafool]

Keep both reverse loops; having to backup thru one is a PITA. The way you have it drawn allows for a more interesting "mainline" run because you can vary the route in more ways. Looks good! I also recommend some strategically placed auto (non-derailing) switches as well. When I was a young'un, my 5x9 layout had only 4 manual switches and I was always scrambling to throw a lever before a train got there. Acquisition of some 022s really put the enjoyment back into just watching them roar around the track.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info everyone, this means I'm going to do some refiguring;

... but then I might be spending as much to do that as it would cost just to bump up to the remotes.  Time will tell.

 

 Do yourself a big favor and purchase the remote control switches !!!

 The first time you experience a train accident that disfigures or damages any equipment, will cost you much more to repair than the extra few extra dollars of the electric operating upgades.

 And I would definitely keep the extra reverse loop, as it will make your railroad easier and much more fun to run.

..

[jchase1970]

Here's Auto Zone's choke cable, for $17:

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=C001&UserAction=performMoreDetail&Parameters=TRUE%7C%7EChoke%7C%7ENONE%7C%7E6%60+Universal+Choke+Cable+Kit.%7C%7ENONE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7E710383%7C%7E1323%7C%7E2450%7C%7ENONE%7C%7E%2416.99%7C%7ENONE%7C%7ENONE%7C%7ENONE%7C%7ENONE%7C%7E0.462%7C%7EEA%7C%7EV%7C%7ESPE%7C%7Etrue

 

 

I looked on Train Expresses web site and the price of remote switches for o-27 is only $10 more they are $18.50 as compared to $8.99 for manual.  So unless you just want the enjoyment of throwing the manual switches almost anything you buy is going to cost more then the switch.  Also it will be so much easier to install the remote switch and wire as opposed to installing a manual switch and then making a mechanical device to operate it on the other side of the table.

 

John 

[brianel027]

Hey guess I wasn't being clear. The Lionel 1022 Manual Switch isn't a "non-derailing" type. But it does have a power disconnect wired into it so that when the train is coming into the switch from the curve, and the switch is thrown straight, the train will stop. The switch has to be manually thrown to activate the power to that section of track.

Now, I personally like 027 track - especially on a smaller layout - because of the lower profile. But that said, there are plusses and drawbacks to everything. The big plus to '0' guage track is the non-derailing 022 switch, which has the non-derail function and draws power from an auxiliary source and not from the track like the Lionel automatic 027 switches.

I'm not as familiar with the '0' switches. The MPC-era to current manual Lionel 027 switches (with the large brown switch box and side activated lever) are a sinch to control with ordinary fishline by drilling a small hole into the handle of the switch lever. I don't know how you'd do that with '0' manual switches.

By the way, I get my bicycle brake cable at a non-discount small downtown bike shop and it doesn't cost more than $3.00. It works fine for my applications, as does fishline. Kids seem to be just as impressed with my manually operated things... they just don't see things like that anymore. Boys especially are curious and want to know how I make something work and always want an explanation and then peek under the layout to see.... the nature of boys - and a good thing too!!!

ATSjer, if you are sticking with tubular '0' I recommend using the automatic 022 switches and just getting them in time. As said above, they are a big plus especially for small kids. I still like the idea of having more sidings at the front of the layout... but the decision depends on how you like to operate: some like to "run" trains and others like me, like switching/siding action.

Take into account everything you read here, but ultimately you'll go with your own decision - which is ultimately the one that counts. I mean, I run my trains on rectified DC current... not many do that, but for me it works just fine. And no one will be able to tell me otherwise. The types of locos I have run so much better minus the circuit board reverse units and on the DC current.

So good luck and have fun. I love your byline about the 4th generation training the 5th. How cool is that?!!!!!!!! That's what it is really about!!

[Anonymous]

Wow, ok, my brain is buzzing with all the different sorts of switches.  Question; the Lionel O22 switch is not an O-27 gauge switch right?  Meaning that the O-22 will work on an O-31 layout, if so then I think I'm going to save myself the aggrevation and just plan for adding in the O-22's because they look to be priced fairly reasonably from retailers and there seems to be several on ebay (just going to stay away from the post war ones.

Next question: is this an O-22 switch? http://www.charlesro.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CRSC&Product_Code=L14062

[Anonymous]

So good luck and have fun. I love your byline about the 4th generation training the 5th. How cool is that?!!!!!!!! That's what it is really about!!

Yeah, my dad and grandfather are really proud that the tradition is being carried on, and my son seems very eager to learn all about trains with his daddy.

[brianel027]

YEP, that's the 022 '0' Gauge switch.

The big plus to the 022 was the non-derailing feature and that the power didn't come from the track. The Lionel 027 electric switches also had a non-derailing feature but the power came from the track - a big drawback. They can be modified though and many do just that.

There's no need to avoid the postwar versions of the 022. The postwar Lionel Corp. built and engineered things to last. Just be wary of condition versus the price... but they certainly can be purchases for a deal on eBay with some persistance. The 022's can be fixed and replacement parts are available, but if you've never done the work yourself, paying a tech to do can defeat the savings of buying fixer-uppers.

The only '0' switch you want to avoid in the newer one made (the Lionel 031, item # 6-23010 / 6-23011) around 1996 or 1997 by Lionel LTI, which had the curve part and the straight part of the switch in two sections, It was a novel idea, but poorly done and eventually dropped because of the problems. People I knew that got them, ditched them in short time. That's the one to avoid.

[jimhaleyscomet]

That layout with the double reverse loops is really fine!  Do you realize that if you use powered remote (non-derailing) switches that you can run from loop to loop continously while parking a train on the unused "siding" portion of the loop?   Changing the train direction really adds interest to a running session.

Go with remote switches going into the loops.  K-line snaptrack switches are sometimes available, work well, and go well with O track.  For O27 track use the "new" k-line O27 switches with low profile and separate power option.  

Jim H 

[Anonymous]

Thanks a ton, you guys are awesome!  Can you imagine that I still have another question?!

Is the Lionel No. 5132 (right) and No. 5133 (left) equal to the O-22 switch?

[Anonymous]

Changing the train direction really adds interest to a running session.

Yeah, I consulted with my father as I was planning the layout, and the one thing that he was almost insistent upon was the ability to change direction going both ways, I headed his advice when looking for my layout.  I'm also going to add some terrain features later on.

Here is a topographic version, right now I have two tunnels, but I may only go with one.  I'm not one on all the accessories and such, I just want a clean layout with a few structures, trees, etc, a nice country railroad through the hills of Central Kentucky.

[Anonymous]

Thanks a ton, you guys are awesome!  Can you imagine that I still have another question?!

Is the Lionel No. 5132 (right) and No. 5133 (left) equal to the O-22 switch?

anyone?