And in the beginning.....

[Anonymous]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-LIONEL-2-7-8-GAUGE-B-O_W0QQitemZ230090316743QQihZ013QQcategoryZ4145QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't frequent auctions much but thought this was something you don't see listed every day.  The photos give nice insight into JLC's manufacturing techniques over 100 years ago.  Restored or not, it's truly an example of a "rare" Lionel piece.

Bruce Webster

[csxt30]

I like that one too Bruce & would like this one also !! It would be nice to have this & the tubine set with the electrol too !!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110090888673&rd=1&rd=1

Thanks, John

[Anonymous]

John,

  Those B6 type switchers numbered 8976 ( 232, 233, etc.) seem to be hot collector items.  Kind of odd that a nicely detailed, nearly scale engine is restricted to pulling pre-war box coupler type tinplate cars.  The 701 version is the one with scale couplers like on the 700E.  Magic Electrol as I understand it was a pre-war method of reversing the engine using a whistle button to activate the direction change.  That's why they lack an E unit lever sticking through the boiler.  Automatic couplers on ME engines still needed an operating track to activate.  To give ME engines some form of sound the bell ringer tender was offered.  It didn't take Lionel long to realize that Magic Electrol engines in combination with other engines that had whistles was a confusing mess.  WWII brought an end to ME.  Magic Electrol and the post-war Electronic Turbine  sets are 2 different animals.  That's when the remote couplers came into play.

  On the last visit to my LHS they had a Lionel reproduction of the 8976 type B6 for sale.  I don't know when Lionel remade these.  I can't remember the exact price but it was more than the $700 I was prepared to spend at that time.  Of course the new one has knuckle couplers, TMCC and no Magic Electrol.

Bruce Webster

[lionelsoni]

When the whistle relay was attached to the couplers, it was called "teledyne" uncoupling; but it was the same idea as "magic electrol", to use the whistle signal for something else.

I have a homemade scheme which does the same thing without using the whistle signal.  I arm the device just by turning the voltage up for a few seconds with the locomotive in neutral.  Then, the next time I start the locomotive, the coupler(s) open.  The arming step charges a capacitor.  When voltage appears on the motor's field winding, a transistor discharges the capacitor into a relay coil.  The relay contacts connect the track voltage to the coupler(s).

[Anonymous]

That's a neat trick, Bob!  What a beautifully simple method of automaticly firing couplers in conventional control....especially when compared to the method used by PS1.  Bravo!

Is the arming of the coupler bypassed by keeping the throttle voltage low when cycling through neutral?  This also raises another question.  Could your setup be wired so that during the directional cycle only the rear coupler would fire when the engine moved forward and only the front fire when in reverse? 

Bruce Webster

[RR Redneck]

Wow, Lionel has come a heck of a long way.

[Anonymous]

It's gone to a new home.  I wonder how often Lionel 2 7/8" makes it onto Ebay?  Has Ebay dragged a significant amount of this stuff out of dusty attics and closets in the recent past, making it less exclusive and more easily obtainable?

Bruce Webster

[lionelsoni]

Yes, Bruce.  Either keeping the voltage low or not lingering in neutral.  You have to make a longer, higher-voltage stop than feels natural; so it's easy to avoid false uncoupling.

That's a good point about selecting the coupler.  You could do it by returning the uncoupling circuit to the pickup rather than to the frame, then putting in two transistor-relay sets, only one of which would see voltage relative to the pickup, depending on which way the e-unit had the armature connected.  However, I don't think it would buy you much extra capability, since the coupler on the shoving end of the locomotive will remain closed anyway, even though the coil is energized.

I have built the circuit in two ways:  The transistor has a grounded emitter and the capacitor is grounded, with the coil between the collector and the ungrounded end of the capacitor.  There is a snubber diode across the coil.  I have tried it with the charging diode and resistor connected to the capacitor; but sometimes there is enough charging current to hold the relay even after the capacitor has discharged, which risks keeping the coupler operating indefinitely.  It works better with the charging path connected to the collector, charging the capacitor through the snubber diode.  Then, when the transistor turns on, it shunts the charging current completely to ground; and the relay always releases after a couple of seconds.

[csxt30]

It's gone to a new home.  I wonder how often Lionel 2 7/8" makes it onto Ebay?  Has Ebay dragged a significant amount of this stuff out of dusty attics and closets in the recent past, making it less exclusive and more easily obtainable?

Bruce Webster

I agree Bruce !!  I think years ago if you wanted a really nice or rare train, you joined the TCA. I joined the TCA in the 90s for a couple years & that's where I would see the stuff you see on E-bay now. Of course I didn't have a computer then & may not even have heard of E-bay !!

Thanks, John

[laz 57]

Nice pics thanks BRUCE.

laz57

[Anonymous]

It's gone to a new home.  I wonder how often Lionel 2 7/8" makes it onto Ebay?  Has Ebay dragged a significant amount of this stuff out of dusty attics and closets in the recent past, making it less exclusive and more easily obtainable?

Bruce Webster

I agree Bruce !!  I think years ago if you wanted a really nice or rare train, you joined the TCA. I joined the TCA in the 90s for a couple years & that's where I would see the stuff you see on E-bay now. Of course I didn't have a computer then & may not even have heard of E-bay !!

Thanks, John

John,

  I'm not sure when Ebay started.  It was there when I got online in 1995.  I use Ebay as a barometer... a good way to keep abreast of the toy train collectables market.  Have yet to buy anything toy train related off there.

 Regarding the B6 switcher.  As Bob mentioned there was a Teledyne automatic coupler version, operated by the whistle button...the #227.  I stand corrected on my statement that a form of remote uncoupler wasn't available till the Electronic set was introduced.  Both the 232 and 233 had Magic Electrol reversing units.  Curiously the top of the line 701 scale B6 had neither.

Bruce Webster

[csxt30]

Thanks again Bruce !!  I have all those engines in this one TCA book I have but I don't know the difference between Teledine & the Electrol yet !! Really does sound interesting !! Yes, I think I heard about E-bay in the 90s, but I really didn't discover it till just a couple years ago or so and have bought quite a few items over the years with much success, only one problem once.

Thanks, John 

[msacco]

I have an extra whistle relay and I plan on mounting it into my 623 to gain teledyne.

Greeberg Postwar repair guide has the wiring schematic published originally by Lionel in the very beginning. Seems like a great idea. Any drawbacks to wiring for teledyne?

 Mike S.