Command or not, that is the question

[dwiemer]

OK, OK, so I am putting TMCC in my layout and plan to do it in such a way that should I ever want to put DCS in, I can do so.  Now to my engines and the question.  I have a substantial number of Post war, pre war, MPC and new era motive power.  What engines have y'all put command control in and which ones are better left for conventional?  I would like to know both, what can be done and what has been done and your experience (issues/problems).

Thanks,

Dennis

[laz 57]

DENNIS,

  You can run both TMCC and conventional with the CAB1 if you buy the newer ZW with 180 watt blocks.  The four channels on the newer ZW has TR 1 and 4 that can be contolled the power to those tracks with the cab 1.  So you can regulate the power to those tracks and control horn, bell and direction with the Cab1.  I can run my TMCC engines and conventional engines and MTH engines (only conventionally ) all with the Cab1.  Hope this helps?

laz57

[csxt30]

I'm set up with a postwar ZW & TMCC. For conventional, wheather it be PS-2 or Lionel postwar & MPC or other engines, you can't beat purchaseing a TPC !! I don't think you need a TPC with the new ZW as Laz has ! Also, you should be able to add DCS at a later time, we will help you !! I had to throw that IN !! Please tell us what you will be using for a transformer when you get a chance !!  

Thanks, John

 

[steinmike]

Now to my engines and the question.  I have a substantial number of Post war, pre war, MPC and new era motive power.  What engines have y'all put command control in and which ones are better left for conventional?  I would like to know both, what can be done and what has been done and your experience (issues/problems).

Dennis:

I was in the same situation as you - I have Lionel postwar steam and diesels that I have left conventional as well as Williams engines that I have purchased in recent years.  I've only gone with command conversions where the performance with mechanical e-units was not good compared to newer engines, where I wanted to run multiple engine consists, or where I wanted to add sound.  I had a train shop convert a Lionel Amtrak GG-1 and a CN Budd RDC to command and have been happy with the results.  I also had a train shop in Ohio perform a "mini" conversion on two MPC engines where they removed the mechanical e-unit and motor and installed a single Williams flywheel can motor with electronic reverse and "TrueBlast II" sound.  The improvement in performance, especially at low speeds, was dramatic.

Have fun!

Mike

  

[dwiemer]

I'm set up with a postwar ZW & TMCC. For conventional, wheather it be PS-2 or Lionel postwar & MPC or other engines, you can't beat purchaseing a TPC !! I don't think you need a TPC with the new ZW as Laz has ! Also, you should be able to add DCS at a later time, we will help you !! I had to throw that IN !! Please tell us what you will be using for a transformer when you get a chance !!  

Thanks, John

 

Hey guys, thanks for the great responses.  John, right now, I have a PW-ZW (250), and two KWs.  I do expect to get a new ZW with the bricks, but not right away.

Thanks,
Dennis

[cheech]

I am sure you recognize, that in TMCC, to run conventional you need a TPC or PowerMaster controller.

I run PW conventional with the PW ZW using the CAB-1. It is fine, but the handles controlling them just seems better.

ralph

[chuck]

If the engine is collectible, leave it alone.  If it's not, look inside and see how much room you have to work with/around.  Any loco can be equipped for TMCCC operation, it's just a matter of how hard/expensive it will be.  More recent loco's with electronic E-units were designed to hold circuit boards and generally have mounting brackets, etc.  Older loco's with mechanical E-Units will generally require gutting and making up some type of brackets to hold the boards.  DO NOT USE FOAM TAPE, it will degrade and short out over time.  Your next biggest challenges are figuring out how much current your loco will consume to determine the running capacity of the replacement command control board.  Steam loco's usually require installation of the electronics in the tender and a tether to cary signals back and forth.  Last hurdle is the antenna.  Plastic shelled diesels are easy, metal shelled tenders are hard.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Just my 2 cents worth but here goes!

I run DCS, TMCC, and conventional.  A new ZW (at about $400) is equal  to upgrading 2 to 3 old units (without sound and electrocoupler).  I have upgraded a few Beeps to TMCC but the rest of my engines I leave conventional.  The new ZW along with the CAB1/Command base gets me 70% of the benefit of command control (i.e. remote control speed, horn, bell plus great slow speed operation).  Add a sound car tender or railcar ($100) and now I am up to 90% of TMCC benefits that I use.  

I  run TMCC and love it.  I run DCS and love it.  But most of my conventional engines I keep conventional and I like that as well!

Jim H 

[dwiemer]

Thanks guys, I am along the same lines (I think) regarding how I plan to operate.  I have many PW steamers and probably will go conventional on the Cab 1.  Jim,  I also have the trainsounds B&O boxcar and the Lionel Lines Caboose that will get me the 90% you speak of.  I do have some beeps and other newer engines that will be candidates for upgrades.  I hope to hear from people who have done these upgrades and what they think.  Thanks for the tip about not using foam tape.  I have wondered about that.

Dennis

[Roger Bielen]

Dennis, come on up to Watkinsville and visit the store.  We have a demo layout with the ZW and are always willing to talk trains.  We also have the TPC400's.  That's what I have on my layout for TMCC engines and then I have my old PM toggled so that I can just switch it on if I want to run a conventional engine.

It can't be too far since we've had a couple of folks up from Vidalia over the last couple of Saturdays.  I've been there Saturday afternoons for the past couple of weeks and will probably be there Sats. through the end of the month, don't know next months schedule yet.

As to engine convertions, I'd leave the prewar alone and look at the value of everything else.  I've done my old 2020 since they're fairly common.

[jefelectric]

Dennis,

Like you I started with a Post War ZW, then added a Z4000.  Now using both to feed the four channels of a TIU for DCS.  Plus a separate brick feeding one channel of the second TIU.  All are also controled by TMCC.  I can, but seldom do, run convententional on all but the brick feed block using the transformer control handles.

I have converted to TMCC a Williams A-A FA unit, a buddy, two Lionel trainmasters with AC pullmore motors & A Williams scale GG1.  Have the kits to do another buddy and a Lionel Docksider.  In the FA & GG1 I used TAS kits and in the Trainmasters, buddies & Docksider using Electric RR kits.  The trainmasters I did not add sound since the motors have enough growl.  They do run much slower and have better control than with conventional.

Once you run with TMCC or DCS you will not want to run conventional very much.

The conversions in diesels are not difficult at all.  Haven't done a steamer yet, the docksider will be my first.  If that works out OK, I have a couple I may try, but they are all newer with DC motors, not Post war.

At the moment I have 5 DCS locos on the layout and 3 TMCC, no conventional.

That's my

[jefelectric]

I forgot to mention that in the Trainmasters I used the existing horn with TMCC.  Jon at ERR has a way of doing this with his kits.  Doesn't have a bell which I seldom use anyway.  The only problem with the pullmores is that they take a lot of power.  I once ran the two of them in a lashup pulling a lighted passenger train and blew my 10 amp fuse that I use for the ZW.  Don't do that anymore.

[ChiefEagles]

Dennis, go get a TPC [or several,on for each loop].  I've got one and will probably get another to run each loop separate].  On conversions, I have only done diesels.  Marty just did the Polar Express.  With his sucess, I am going to move into steamers.   

[Joe Hohmann]

I just had a 1986 Williams brass streamlined K4 converted to TMCC/Railsounds by TAS. The entire job was about $245., which included $70. labor (I'm a "electrical dunce"). The main reason I had this engine done is that no other train company has made a model of it (this is not the Loewy-designed K4). I'll be running it in full TMCC mode.

I'm content to keep my Lionel postwar as-is. If I want sound, I add a TrainSounds tender or box car. I can't see spending big bucks just to run conventional/remote, since my layouts are small, and my modular group does not run postwar.  Joe

[dwiemer]

Thanks to everyone for the information.  I have a lot going on right now and first I am in the process of doing the wiring on the layout.  I have gained several important tips from this great crowd.  I am getting the wire plan by setting up for DCS even though at this time, I plan only to run TMCC, this will allow me to expand in the future without having to rewire the whole thing.

Dennis

[laz 57]

Good Luck DENNIS and a GOOD CHOICE, you'll have the best of both worlds.

laz57

[A&Y Ry]

On my scale brass/diecast steamers that have been converted to TM/RS the tender body has been "floated" [insulated] from the frame by use of plastic electrical tape. After about 6 years it seems to be holding up well. However, I have only removed the body once to check on 13 converted engines. So far the double-stick tape used as an electronics component retainer in a couple of spots hasn't released but I agree with Chuck it is likely to eventually deterioate and be troublesome.

My first conversion to TM/RS was the MTH Clinchfield Challenger which has run trouble-free with 30 Hopppers in tow on one of the 13 x 28 shelf tracks as conventional and command through three sets of traction tires since 1994. Otherwise I just dust and lube it occasionally.

My other steam conversions are favorite Southern and N&W engines,mostly MTH, however not necessarily the latest and greatest detail and are all scale-size. But as regards brand they range across the board: MTH early Proto 1./0 diecast, 3rd Rail brass, Weaver brass and Lionel diecast['92 Mikado required a reed switch and wheel magnet to regulate chuff].

My Williams brass N&W "J" has been flywheel-remotored and converted to TM/RS but other Williams brass units[Ps-4s and Mikados] were upgraded to electronic e-units in late '80s or early '90s by Samtech in Columbia,MD and have stayed conventional.

Diesels are all plastic steam transition period diesels and none later than 1953 when Southern ended steam. Conversions to TM/RS are Weaver RS-3, MTH A-A PAs and Williams E-7s. MTH GP-9s and Weaver E-8s remain conventional. My only diecast Diesels are very early '90s Williams A-B-A Southern Ry F-7s which are still conventional. Modern Atlas Diesels [SD & GP-35s] and N.C DOT FPH units only exit Railrax shelves to satisfy grown sons and grand daughters when they visit and run too fast. [Ancient Lionel AA Diesels remain on the shelf "Museum"].

Except for the RS-3 done by Weaver, all of my conversions were by Phil Hull at T/A Studios right after MTH announced that Proto 1.0 would/could not be converted to Proto 2.0.

My ZWs have retired to test track and back-up service since IC Controls issued the TPCs and Lionel the PowerHouses. I use TMCC and Conventional[Proto 1.0 & pw Lionel conv.mostly], but the 180 watt PoHos were also a good power supply for my DCS 180 watt rated 4-channel TIU before I sold the system.