Looking for thoughts on new versus old ZW

[Birds]

I am in need of a second transformer for my layout and would appreciate hearing some thoughts about going with a new Lionel ZW versus going with a refurbished vintage Lionel ZW.

I don't have experience with either of the units so I have no basis to evaluate one against the other.  That is why I am asking for thoughts.

I am aware of the MTH Z-4000, and have seen them in action, but am not considering it right now because it doesn't quite give me what I am looking for in terms of price and versitility of voltage settings.

I run engines in conventional mode, and I don't have plans to move to either TMCC or DCS.

My current engines do not have sound.  I run passenger trains with lit cars.

I estimate I need about 20-50 watts per train depending on the consist being run, and estimate that my consists draw a max of about 3 amps per train under good conditions.

I can run two trains at once on the layout, and possibly three.

I was also considering the MRC Pure Power Dual (270 watts) but the two throttles, 7 amp limit per throttle, and 14 volt fixed accessory post has me a bit concerned about expansion down the road.

Thanks,

Chris 

[Blueberryhill RR]

Well, Chris, I will tell you what I have. I run conventionally also. I have several engines with digital horns and whistles. I have a PW ZW which I rebuilt, from a kit I bought from Olsen's. It does the job fine. I do not intend to go to any electronic system. If you can find a good ZW, then I would recommend it. You may want to install a better circuit breaker, that trips quicker. Just my opinion.

Chuck

[msacco]

Chris,

I have the new zw and I run almost completely in conventional. Have one comand engine and may get another one, but my heart is really with postwar.

    I will tell you I love the new zw. I have the 135 PWC set and had a problem with the handle stipping out well out of warranty but lionel fixed after Davis Electronics sent it to them. Seems it was a factory assembly error.

   With 4 180 bricks possible you will have all the power you will most likely need and really nice control over conventional engines if you get the commad base and cab1 combo. You are also set to go to command if you get these additional components should you ever decide to go for it.

Mike S.

[A&Y Ry]

The postwar ZW has 180-90 watts output in total or about equivalent to a single Lionel 180 watt PowerHouse. I have retired my pw ZWs to test track and back up service and operate TMCC and Conventional with PowerHouses linked to TPCs as my layout/train  controllers.

If you can find a Pw ZW that has been refurbished within the past 5 years---new cord, replaced rollers, replaced damaged binding posts, replaced old useless copper or selenium whistle/bell rectifiers with diodes [or has an external Bell Button box]----it is worth about $160 -180 or around $1 or less per watt of output.

Th pw ZW is a single core, multi-tap, virtually bullet proof transformer that if refurbished properly is good for another 1/4 to 1/2 century of operation. If you buy one that needs rehab parts and repair,  folks that sell em or fix em are plentiful.

I haven't trusted a ZW breaker in many years and at the end used 4-position cartridge fuse blocks which replaced a "breaker box" containing 4 Potter-Brumfield "fast-acting" circuit breakers sized variously to protect how I used the A,B,C,and D throttles in operation. Breakers are okay but slow compared to a sensitive 180 Poho breaker or fast-blow fuses. Properly sized fuses protect the equipment more rapidly and will blow upon an overload/short.

[Chris F]

I have a PWC ZW, and Postwar ZW, Z, KW, and VW hooked up to my layout.  The PWC ZW is for running trains; all the others are for switches and accessories.

As noted, the modern ZW has more reliable circuit breakers and includes both whistle and bell buttons.  Mostly I run conventional (MPC N&W "J" and C&NW GP-38 tonight), but always operate with a Cab-1.  Modern ZW's include PowerMasters for each throttle, so the only addition required was the remote.  Another thing - the 6V minimum from the Postwar transformers makes my lighter, can-motored locos start like jackrabbits.

[ChiefEagles]

Got three PW ZW's activ on my layout.  All their breakers have been changed to automotive type resetting breakers.  They work a lot better than the Lionel ones.  I still use a box of quick acting circuit breakers [manual resetting] I built for OGR video.  The new ZW is chopped zine wave and has given some engines a little hickups.  Note a couple of years ago on this forum.

[Birds]

Thanks for the comments!

One question I have is about the new ZW.  I downloaded the manual and read through it, but something wasn't clear to me.

Do you need to have four Power House transformer bricks plugged into the unit in order to have all four sets of voltage posts and throttles active?  Or will the unit take the 360 watts from the two supplied bricks and make that 360 watts available across the four posts and four throttles?

Chris 

[A&Y Ry]

Chris

The two 180 PoHos on the Celebration ZW are not wired in parallel as they could be when paralleled and linked to a TPC for example.  Therefore they do not produce 360 watts [20 amps]for a single power district ["block" or oval, etc].  Each PoHo suplies a  power district under a single throttle control with 10 amps.

[jimhaleyscomet]

I ran PW ZW's for years and finally sprung for the new ZW.  It is soooooo nice for running conventional engines remotely (after you add the TMCC command base/remote for $100). If you can afford it (even if you have to stretch) and would like remote operation of conventional engines I would definiately recommend the new ZW. 

I believe there is a jumper so one brick can power at least two (if not four) throttles.

Jim H

P.S. I run my new ZW through fixed ports on DCS and regularly run TMCC engines, PS2.0 engines, and conventional locomotives all together all at the same time! 

[phillyreading]

I like the older ZW's from the post war era, if the transformer is refurbished and using either newer circuit breakers or fuses that is what I would use.  If you need just power a post war Z transformer will work fine as it has four adjustable controls for trains or accessories.

Has anybody mentioned about the space that the new ZW with power bricks takes up?  It will be twice the space or more than for a post war ZW because the new ZW is just a shell until a power unit is plugged into it.    READ the reveiw in CTT magazine about repairing a new ZW!

Lee F.

 

[Anonymous]

I have both a Postwar and Modern ZW.  My Modern ZW has 2 180w powerhouses and I plan to pickup 4 more and an additional Modern ZW for the new layout, I may need 2 more ZWs and 6 more powerhouses, but we shall see...

What I look most is that I can run both TMCC and Conventional Locos with only the ZW and 1 command base and 1 CAB-1.  I may get 2 additional Cab-1s (1 for backup).

I will definitely have 2 ZWs and 8 180 powerhouses, but I may forgo the 3rd ZW and powerhouses and just use accessory transformers for the accessories, lights and switches, but we shall see.

[Anonymous]

I like the older ZW's from the post war era, if the transformer is refurbished and using either newer circuit breakers or fuses that is what I would use.  If you need just power a post war Z transformer will work fine as it has four adjustable controls for trains or accessories.

Has anybody mentioned about the space that the new ZW with power bricks takes up?  It will be twice the space or more than for a post war ZW because the new ZW is just a shell until a power unit is plugged into it.    READ the reveiw in CTT magazine about repairing a new ZW!

Lee F.

 

Nothing wrong with the space because the ZW is the only thing you see.  The powerhouses can be tucked away under the layout or under the ZW if you build a Command Center.

[Birds]

Thank you very much for the input.

Chris 

[msacco]

YOu will not be disappointed with the new ZW. I have had no issues with the chopped sine wave and only recently read that it is just a slightly modified waveform. I have also heard it allows for better control of conventional postwar engines.

 Mike S.

[jimhaleyscomet]

YOu will not be disappointed with the new ZW. I have had no issues with the chopped sine wave and only recently read that it is just a slightly modified waveform. I have also heard it allows for better control of conventional postwar engines.

 Mike S.

A new ZW runs conventional engines VERY slow.  A new ZW with command base and remote runs Conventional engines VERY slow remotely.  It is a FANTASTIC combination!  Add a trainsounds car and you get much all the benefit of command control on multiple engines without the expense. 

Can you tell I love mine?   Why oh why did I wait so long?

Jim H 

[mpzpw3]

I, too, had this dillema last summer. After weighing the pro's and con's, decided on the new zw.

Here was my reasoning:

1. 720 watts of usable power. Postwar version cannot put out it's maximum wattage rating.

2. Compatability with TMCC. I run mainly conventional, but add up what TPC's would cost for an old zw to run 4 individual loops, and you see what I mean.

3.No worries about old cords, diodes, etc.

4. I would probably have needed two postwar ZW's to power my layout trains. Right now I can power it with one modern ZW, and 3 180 watt bricks, still having room for expansion. The downside is, I am only using 3 throttles, where the postwar version could use all four, but with limited power.

5. Built-in "bell" button on 1 and 4 throttles. Kinda nice not to have to wire in a "bell" button on every throttle.

After purchasing the new ZW, I was glad I did. It runs all my engines well, including PS-1 engines. Never thought I would use it, but having the remote is a really nice thing to have, after adding a command base.  If you go the new zw route, you might consider the remote control feature, even if not using command control engines. Who knows, you might buy one someday, and you would have everything you need to run it.

[Birds]

So if I understand properly what I am reading:

New ZW: 

• two Power Houses can supply 360 watts of useable power across all four throttles by installing jumpers into throttle input jacks (allowing two throttles to pull from a pool of 180 watts with a 10 amp load limit)
  
• four Power Houses can be plugged in providing 180 watts at 10 amps to each throttle
• TMCC control of transformer with addition of a Command Base and CAB-1 units
• cropped sine wave
• bell and whistle button

Reburbished vintage ZW

• limited to 180 watts of useable power
• power is available to all four throttles
• internal breaker trips at 15 amps
• no bell button
  
• pure sine wave

Thanks,

Chris 

[mpzpw3]

Birds,

Yes, everything you are saying is correct. I wouldn't worry too much about the chopped sine-wave, though. The chopped sine-wave seems to effect MTH proto-1 engines the most, which my modern ZW seems to not have a problem with, as I run quite a few of them, along with some proto-2, Williams, postwar Lionel, and modern Lionel. I don't think the sine-wave is "chopped" as much as some other modern transformers (MRC dual power, CW-80, and some others).

[dennyblock]

Do you need a TPC with a new ZW?

[ADCX Rob]

The ZW has TPC "190"/PM-1 "190" capabilities built-in, usable w/ a Cab-1 & Command Base for conventional control(190 watts per channel) by remote.  The ZW has no RF circuitry, so the Base is required.  No TPC required.

Rob 

[jimhaleyscomet]

Do you need a TPC with a new ZW?

No...it has that feature built in.  Some say it is like getting 4 powermasters inside.

Jim H