New K-Line and Lionel Catalogs: Hey Brianel!!!!

[Jumijo]

There is a Conrail GP20 in the new Lionel catalog just for you! MSRP of $140!!!

Higher end Conrail offerings as well! 

Jerry does listen! 

Jim 

[Jumijo]

And a Conrail caboose for $40!!!

Is today your birthday, Brian?

Jim 

[brianel027]

Yes Jim. And we shall see if the Lionel copy writers will once again be wrong and this loco will actually come with the dual motors the copy says it does not have. The WP and CSX U36B's were all listed as single motor units, but in reality came with dual motors. The previous Conrail U36B was listed as a single motor unit and that's what it really was. That loco is the reason I made the statement I would NEVER buy another new Lionel locomotive. The ON RS-3 was also cataloged with a single motor, yet came with dual motors.

So I will resevere judgement until I actually see the product and see how they made it. I do prefer the blue handrails of the prior CR U36B over the white ones on this new GP-20, but the break line for me will be does it come with dual motors or not? The other engines I mentioned and didn't want all came with dual motors... so will Lionel screw up again?

AND NOW FOR AN 027 TAKE ON THE NEW CATALOGS:

*Again, no modern roads on the Lionel starter cars, but there is a CP Rail gondola and there is a CP Expansion Pack that will probably end up as break-ups, so there is some reason to be happy. But I don't know why they repeat things so much. Atlas IR is offering a D&H red tank car, and now Lionel dupicates it. Both Lionel and Atlas IR have had New Haven box cars recently, yet Lionel offers the Waffle Box Car in New Haven..... How about this one in NORFOLK SOUTHERN or CONRAIL or CPR or BNSF????

*Yes, there is the CR GP-20. Dual motors = sale. Single motor = no sale unless a major blowout. I was pleased to see the continued expansion of the Dockside switcher... Lionel has a hit with this one, as if Allan Miller and I couldn't have predicted that one years ago.

C'mon Lionel.... lets see some more offerings in this vein. Budget priced items with compromises in scale and detail. Hate to tell the industry leader that they could take some real advice and learn some valuable lessons from the little guy... but I will because it's true! Lionel... take a good look a what RMT is doing... they in my book were the best train company of the year, and are unquestionably destined for that honor again this year.

*VERY HAPPY to see the K-Line S-2 Alco cataloged and at a list of $75 with dual motors! Thank you Lionel. I'd be more likely to get one of these and unfortunately repaint yet another loco. One day maybe I can buy a loco made by Lionel and NOT HAVE TO repaint it. Every Lionel loco I own has been repainted for the necessity of having a modern road name.

*VERY HAPPY overall with the KLionel offerings. The basic steamer is down in price to where it should have been. There are unfortunatly no MARX origin rolling stock items (a big mistake) and the prior Train-19 items offer the same exact prior issued road names (another big mistake), but at least they are being made. Was also happy to see the New Haven Alco FA set... maybe there will be some break-ups on that one!?

I think Lionel dropped the ball by not having the K-Line redesigned 027 switch cataloged, but overall there are more K-Line product offerings than I had expected to see. And given that it seems no one is totally happy with every catalog, I think there's a good spattering of offerings in many price ranges, that there really is something for everyone.

As for me though, I see no reason for my paint shop to be closing anytime in the near future. Lionel just doesn't understand there are some current railroads that 027 guys would like to operate on their own layouts.

[Jumijo]

Brian, I wish you could feel the excitement I feel right now over the 2 new catalogs. My only complaint is not having enough money to buy all the things I'd like to. Lionel has done an outstanding job of offering something for everyone in my opinion. It's like that old mafia joke - "just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in"! Here is just a short list of the things I liked. I will buy many of these items, much to my wife's dismay:

Lionel:

Mavis
General set with Lincoln Logs
El Capitan streamliner diner
Lionel Lines docksider
Lionel Lines Mikado
Conventional Santa Fe F3 A&B units
PFE reefer
Moe & Joe log car
Barrel unloading car
Lionel Lines Trainsounds tender
262 tinplate passenger set

K-Line:

Hudson (conventional)
PRR Box cab electric
Rutland box car
ATSF boxcar
Boy flying airplane/kite accessory
Santa Fe Midnight Chief AA Alco set
New Haven AA Alco set
Milk car

So much great stuff to choose from. I'm very pleased with the offerings. Kudos to Lionel!

Jim 

[thor]

Jim I thoroughly agree with your reaction, thats mine too. What a wonderful catalog, it made me feel five years old again as far as being excited and wowed by it goes. I wish Dad was still around though (god bless you) now I can only drop hints to myself!

Brian - I have to say I was a little bit surprised at your reaction. You're usually the one that says (paraphrased) things like:- 'get real' and 'its the toy train market that matters' when others nitpick about what's on offer. Besides the catalog says that the loco you mentioned DOES come with twin motors, even though in its own seperate description thats not mentioned.

But still whats wrong with one motor anyway and why would you be on the outs with Lionel about it? Heck I contradict myself all the time, I just wondered if we're seeing a change of direction from you?

[brianel027]

Don't get me wrong Jim... I am happy with the job Jerry Calabrese is doing, ane he's not even a train guy as was Richard Kughn or a previous Lionel executive like John Brady or had the extensive industry experience like Dick Maddox. Calabrese seems to understand things that none of these others understood and HE'S NOT a train guy!!!

But for example with the re-issued K-Line Train-19 cars under the K-Lionel banner... why would I or anyone else want to buy cars that they already have????? Yeah, Lionel saved a few cents on paint masks and will end up losing more than that on lost sales. Had those cars been offered this time around in Norfolk Southern, Conrail, BNSF, CPR, CNA etc. I'd have every one of them on my list. As it is, no one is on my list. That IS just dumb thinking in my book: penny-wise and pound foolish. Again, hard to get excited about cars I have already. And I'm not buying new cars at near list or a reasonable discount off list only to have to repaint them... there's plenty of bargains out there on used stuff.

I am excited about the re-issue of my favorite loco of all time, the K-Line S-2. And am glad to see the Alco FA's and MP-15 in the catalog. And yes, I would absolutely without question HAVE TO repaint the new S-2's but at least they are being made. NO way am I running those moth-eaten road old hat over-issued names on my layout, even though that WP is attractive. My previous K-Line WP S-2 looks 1000% better in solid black Norfolk Southern and probably attracts more attention when on display someplace, than that WP ever would.

Yes, I agree with you Jim, there are some great choices. But almost every thing that grabs my attention would head immediately to the repaint shop, including the neat box cab loco. NO way do I ever want another PRR loco... yuck!!! Now Penn Central... yes, now we're talking!

[Jumijo]

Brian,

We agree much more than we disagree when it comes to toy train philosophy. I think it's unfortunate that you didn't find anything you like in either catalog. Is your blood type O-? I seem to have found too much! I will pour over those catalogs for hours when I get them from my LHS. I might even need a part time job (or sell bodily fluids) to pay for everything I want!

As for the single motored/double motored Conrail loco question - like Thor, I don't see what the issue is. You operate trains on a small layout, correct? So a single motored locomotive will surely be able to pull a small layout-sized train effortlessly. Heck, our anemic James the red engine can pull 6-7 cars easily.

The Conrail caboose is lighted and looks reasonably priced. No paintshop work required there!

Does any one here know what the going price for bodily fluids is? I think I'm O+ . . .

Jim 

[Andrew Falconer]

Have all of you forgotten about Maine Central and Boston & Maine Waffle-Sided Boxcars?

Many have been repainted in the Guilford Industries scheme during the past 15 years.

Those are Northeastern Railroads that would add variety to O Gauge Layouts.

Andrew Falconer

[cnw1995]

And now getting repainted into this Pan Am scheme. Wish I could see one of them.

[Jumijo]

Say what, Doug?

Jim 

[1688torpedo]

 Hello All!    The Prewar 262E set /w the 600 series Gray/Maroon Passenger Cars looks good to me! & I will pre-order it as well. Glad to see another prewar set to grace the catalog pages again & I see that Lionel is offering the "Sam the semaphore man" operating accessory & that looks like another possible buy. The Flyer guys have no reason to complain with what Lionel is making this year & the same applies to the K-line Collectors as their prices seem to be more in line with reason & as has been noted above there is something for everybody in any price range to boot!  Brianel- I very much respect your opinions & advice. However, I agree with Jim A- What is your blood type? Lionel has some very affordable offerings this year & with the Conrail Name on them also. Maybe you'll change your mind after you see them & buy them. The trains modeled on railroads pre-Conrail look nice too. I see there are no Superstreet Corvairs in the Catalog. I'll bet Bruce will fabricate one or two for himself. He's good with that type of thing. Take Care all.

[brianel027]

Hey gang, PLEEZE don't misread me. I DO think these are good catalogs that have much to offer. I have my tastes and my preferences, so my likes are based on that.

Jim, the single motored larger Lionel diesels with single truck mounted motors are lousy pullers. That's it. I have several Industrial Switchers, heavily modified and revamped and they are now incredile pullers that do as well as much bigger locos. I do a couple single truck mounted motored diesels that I have modified myself. But I tested the motors first (the Mabuchi DC can motors all perform a little differently), have modified the truck mount and have carefully weighted the locos. They don't pull as well as others, but mine do much better than the Lionel ones out of the box.

If I were to find one of those single motored Lionel longer diesels as a blowout where I could justify my out of pocket costs and time to add the second motorized truck, I would do that. The Conrail U36B was never a blowout. For me $140 for the Conrail GP-20 or $75 for the K-Lionel Alco S-2, the answer is easy. And if Walter ever does a normal cataloged run of the BEEP in Conrail, the decision just got easier.

But it seems to me there's plenty of variety in the new catalogs and I'll have no problem showing them to newcomers to the hobby and making recommendations.

[Frank53]

Having had just about zero exposure to K-Line, I flipped through the catalog and saw lots of fun stuff.

I could see this on my layout:

 

[nblum]

Seems to me Lionel is doing a reasonable job of trying to meet everyone's needs at least a little, prewar, postwar, modern, scale, toy, accessories, track, command, non-command, starter sets for the modest budget, starter sets for the extravagant budgets.  A price range on sets of more than an order of magnitude (10 fold for you non-science geeks).  From $100/150 to over $2000.  There's no postwar set, but there plenty of postwar rolling stock.  Prewar is new and they're taking baby steps. They do need a Prewar Celebration Series logo instead of the Postwar one for the prewar set (ooops).  All in all, a pretty decent catalog (or catalogs if you include K-Line by Lionel) focusing on the modest budget/beginner end of things, which is clearly where they assess the market growth to be now.  Compare this 200+ page catalog with one from only 10 years ago and you'll see an astonishing increase in the range of products.  Not bad for a company fighting off constant lawsuits from their biggest competitor and dealing with high interest rates and legal fees from their bankruptcy ;).

[Nick12DMC]

Have to agree on the General set with Lincoln Logs I think that ones a must. Some very nice items in both catalogues.

 Though I still like the look of the MTH big boy freight set or a Williams Scale hudson.....          oh dear so many choices

Nick

[Anonymous]

I see there are no Superstreet Corvairs in the Catalog. I'll bet Bruce will fabricate one or two for himself. He's good with that type of thing. Take Care all.

Kieth,

 

We'll have to wait for SS to miniaturize their running gear for Corvair cars.  Then the possiblities are endless.  Maybe even enough room for TMCC ( Transmission Master Clutch Control ) and RS ( Rod Sounds ).

Bruce Webster

 

[dwiemer]

Having had just about zero exposure to K-Line, I flipped through the catalog and saw lots of fun stuff.

I could see this on my layout:

 

Frank, I have several of these in different liveries.  They are very cool.  The only problem I have had was that the handrails are free floating and can easily be lost.  A dab of silicone would be good to keep them from falling out.  One other problem that I read about, it is difficult to replace bulbs.  I don't know this from personal experience though.  I really like these.  I have the Wisconsin Central set, NYC set NJC set and a few others.

I am very excited about a few of the offerings.  I am especially happy to see the Watchman shanty, though renamed, it is there.

Dennis

[Anonymous]

I will definitely be getting at least three of the boxcabs--maybe even more if I want to repaint a couple--and possibly the General set to grow my fairly large collection of Lionel 4-4-0s.

I'll pepnd some time in the near future going through both catalogs in more detail to see what else I may want, but I'm still waiting for some items from the last catalog and don't want to go overboard on this stuff which will likely be many months away. 

[BMRR]

The Lionel catalog is great!! I think it's the best one yet. Can't wait to get it from my LHS. I know I'll be ordering the Southern Berkshire......and a lot more.

Stan.

[Richard Bjorkman]

Say what, Doug?

Jim 

Jim, the old Guilford is now Pan Am Railways. I have to admit, I was kind of baffled the first time I saw a Pan Am boxcar in Lowell Station. http://www.guilfordrail.com/

As for the new catalogs, I am delighted to see a great selection of modestly priced items available. Items that particularly catch my eye:

Lionel

• New Haven waffle-side boxcar
• Rock Island hi-cube
• Pennsylvania searchlight car
• New York Central snow blower
• New York Central 027 passenger-car add-ons (dome and baggage)

K-Line

• New Haven freight set
• U.S. Army steam engine
• U.S. Army 15" heavyweights
• Pennsylvania boxcab
• New Haven boxcab
• Lehigh & New England covered hopper

And I'm sure there will be more.

Richard Bjorkman

[Anonymous]

Just flipped through the K Line catalog and that B&O Capitol Limited really caught my eye. I know this will be a "newbie" type question, but what would the difference be in that it is K Line and not a "normal" Lionel?

PJ

[csxt30]

I think it willl have a little less detail in it & I noticed quite a bit of space between the tender & the trucks. Not a big thing to me but will be for some, just depends how much detail you want !! That may not be a picture of the actual tender so we have to wait & see, I think !!

Thanks, John  

[Andrew Falconer]

CONRAIL is one road name that has not been applied to the Traditional Hi-Cube Boxcar.

The 1970's CONRAIL High-Cube Box Car scheme must be applied to the Lionel Hi-Cube Boxcar. It would be the one with the large name and large logo. The door must be PC Jade Green.

Andrew

[Andrew Falconer]

Walthers Rolling Stock Classic Kits(TM) 50' Fruit Growers Express Insulated Box Car

Burlington Northern Walthers Part # 932-4775, p. 200 Walthers 2007 HO Scale Reference HO scale, $9.98, currently in stock at Walthers

This is what Lionel should be producing in S Scale Proportions for the Traditional O Gauge Line and American Flyer Line in response to the Industrial Rail Line, the RailKing Line, and American Models. They were also operated by Chessie and Seaboard Roads.

Also it looks like the National Steel Car 50' Box Cars operated by railroads like Canadian Pacific, Canadian National, Central Vermont, and Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific.

Andrew

[Cheese]

Well,

I have decided only one major purchase per catalog (I might spring for another Docksider and the Boxcab though)

I decided on the Southern Berkshire and some of the Traditional Freight Cars and maybe some break-up exp. pack and set cars from Gryziboski's. I might go for a #38 Water Tower if Trainworld still has them. Oh, and I would love that ATSF Bay Windo caboose in the Trainworld CTT advertisement.

Now, the K-line catalog is tough. I'm undecided between a Conventional Southern Mikado and Freight Car packs or a 4449 Daylight and Coaches. Tough decision.

I do, however want the Southern States Boxcar pack as well as a NYC Pacemaker Tankcar, ATSF and Rio Grande Boxcar, and a Pennsy Covered Hopper and maybe the Double Door NP Boxcar. No operating cars though. Maybe next year.

I want the street system as well as the track crossing and the track to street adaptor to un the Boxcab or Docksider (Maybe and 0-4-0 if I decide on one)on to a switching job.

I do want a Williams GP-9 and maybe some other things but I need a better paying job before I go buying all that. LOL.

Cheese

 

[Warburton]

Neil - take another look at the new catalog above the prewar set and you'll see the new "Prewar Celebration Series" logo. I know they used the wrong (postwar) logo in the last catalog released last summer, but have corrected that error.

I must admit t took me several times thru the new catalog to spot the prewar celeb logo, as it's not very prominent!

[tim o'm]

I think you guys are right in that there is something in Lionel's catalog for just about everyone. For me, the must-have item is the C&O George Washington set, and the order is in. The profile photos are nice, but I really want to see what the compressors up front look like. What sold me on this train was the article in Classic Trains'current issue. If it weren't for this, I would have no idea that ol' George was now 275 years old.

I am also impressed with the detail on the piggy back trailers, especially the DL&W with ribbed sides and opening end and side doors.