Lionel 2 7/8 inch gauge derrick question

[FJ and G]

Prior to Josh's 3 rail trains, a number of 2.7/8" 2 rail trains were made, which I've become fascinated with. The 2 rails they ran on resemble Lionel's later Super O, and it appears that the track could be made using these center rails or salvaging some strap iron from the trash (not that I'm yet prepared to do any of this of course).

I particularly am enamored of their derrick car, which I soon will try and replicate in O gauge. There's a Mania guy who has been making good repros of these large trains,, incidentally, and you can see the #500 derrick car on his site:

 http://www.jlmtrains.com/278text.htm

Before attempting to rebuild that car, I was curious if anyone knows if that's a selonoid below the derrick or if it is hand cranked. Also, has MTH or others made O gauge repros of this particular style. Also curious what that bucket device is in back of the car. Lastly, I'm betting Josh based this car on some sort of prototype industrial derrick car or MOW car in use at the time.

Incidentally, most of the originals are gone or are so rare that price guides on them are generally not available.

 

Derrick:

 http://www.jlmtrains.com/Graphics/278graphics/500.jpg

[palallin]

The derrick is hand-cranked.  The apparatus beneath the car is its motor.  The "bucket" is the throttle stand.  All of the 2 7/8" gauge stuff was based on NYC subway/transit prototypes, and all were self-propelled (although they produced a few in non-motorized, "trailer" configuration, most of which are pricier than the motorized--and more common--versions).  IIRC, trailer derricks are especially rare. 

They ran on two strap steel rails embedded in slotted wood ties.  Switches were available as were a few accessories, like bumpers and a bridge set. 

David Doyle's prewar book (not handy at the moment, as I'm at work) does a good job of introducing 2 7/8" gauge production.

[FJ and G]

Thanks! I was reading the book last night at Borders; that's where I first saw the photo and then I did a Google search for a site. Yeah, they sure did look like strap iron rails!

I suppose no one made these repro in O gauge yet. Might be a first if I can pull it off.

[Anonymous]

F J and G,

The stand on one end of the derrick car, as with other powered 2 7/8" items is the reversing unit rather than a throttle.  Since 2 7/8" Lionel ran off of DC current ( battery power ) it was a simple matter of reversing polarity to change direction.  If I remember correctly the way to make a throttle on rel early stuff was to wire a number of lightbulbs in such a way that the more lights lit the more resistance caused, slowing the train.

While it's always been stated that certain Lionel's 2 7/8" items (such as the derrick car) were modeled off of subway units it is my opinion that they look closer to elevated railroad equipment of the era.  Subways were basicly non-existant, at least within the NYC area at the turn of the 20th century. 

While the #500 derrick car is rare in the truest sense of the word, the non-powered #600 derrick even rarer.

Bruce Webster

[palallin]

The stand on one end of the derrick car, as with other powered 2 7/8" items is the reversing unit rather than a throttle.  Since 2 7/8" Lionel ran off of DC current ( battery power ) it was a simple matter of reversing polarity to change direction.  If I remember correctly the way to make a throttle on rel early stuff was to wire a number of lightbulbs in such a way that the more lights lit the more resistance caused, slowing the train.

 True enough.  I should have been clearer:  my reference to throttle was to the prototype, not the model.  Sorry for the confusion.

[lionelsoni]

Are you sure that those early Lionel pieces had permanent-magnet motors?  I would think that wound fields are much more likely, in which case reversing would have been done just as it was for universal motors, not that that is much more complicated at all.

This website, selling reproductions, seems to confirm my wound-field hypothesis: 

http://www.jlmtrains.com/278text.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Bob,

I stand corrected.  From what I've learned, if Joe Mania makes it then it's 99.99% dead on original, including the field wound motor.

Everyone interested in 2 7/8" should check out that site!

Bruce Webster

[1688torpedo]

 Dave-  For a Motor, You could probably use a #60 Trolley Motor with Worm Gear & Axle to power your 2 7/8" Gauge Trains & they are not very expensive & run on AC & DC. It would save you the expense & hassle of trying to cobble together your own Motor that may or may not run right. All you would have to do is fashion together the frame & body with the corresponding features of the original versions & you will be set. Take Care.