The following are copied from the guys comments on the Coffee Pot about Soldering. The information is so good, I felt it needed to have its own post so more people can see their comments.
Soldering always seems to be such a formidable task for many of us. I only melted one engine shell during my learning process, and it was only a few years ago that I learned why you tinned.
lionroar88 wrote: ...... EOB arrived last night. First upgrade I am doing myself... so far I am 1.5 hours into the project, have the EOB rigged, the tach installed, and have to decide if I want the puff-n-chuff or standard smoke. So only things left are to cut the #24 pin on the mainboard, solder 1 wire to it, solder 1 wire to the #24 pin on the underside of the RDLC and then if I go puff-n-chuff solder 1 wire to the #17 pin on the underside of the RDLC, reassemble, program, and test.I took a video of the engine before the upgrade starting off - it just zooms by. Also took a few pics of the before inside look of the engine, planning on taking a couple more shots of the during and then a couple of the post upgrade. All in all it hasn't been too bad! I'll let you know what I think of soldering.1 question though. I have the cold point wireless soldering iron from Radio Shack. Should I pick up a new soldering iron while I am at Radio Shack today? The directions say to avoid cross soldering pins, I've never done precision soldering like this and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions? Diameter of solder to use, soldering tips, etc. Also to do this you have to hold 3 items with 2 hands... I think I am one hand short... was thinking I could align the wire where I want it and then temporarily hold it in place with some electrical tape (not where I will be soldering), is that a good idea?Brent
Roger Bielen wrote: Brent, when soldering I've found, what I call, surgical clamps invaluable. They look like scissors. I have a couple of different sizes, some with straight tips and some with curved. I addition to holding wires while soldering they also serve as heat sinks. Being stainless the solder doesn't stick to them. I got mine at a flea market a number of years ago.For circuit boards I'd use the thinnest solder (rosin core) I could get with a fine tipped iron.
Brent, when soldering I've found, what I call, surgical clamps invaluable. They look like scissors. I have a couple of different sizes, some with straight tips and some with curved. I addition to holding wires while soldering they also serve as heat sinks. Being stainless the solder doesn't stick to them. I got mine at a flea market a number of years ago.
For circuit boards I'd use the thinnest solder (rosin core) I could get with a fine tipped iron.
jaabat wrote: Brent,I've heard bad things about that cold point soldering iron. A 15, 25, or 40 watt pencil tipped iron is only $8:00 at Radio Shack. You should also buy some tip tinner and cleaner. It's in a little can and you dip the hot iron into the paste to clean and tin it. Especially a new iron. Worked like pie for me.
Brent,
I've heard bad things about that cold point soldering iron. A 15, 25, or 40 watt pencil tipped iron is only $8:00 at Radio Shack. You should also buy some tip tinner and cleaner. It's in a little can and you dip the hot iron into the paste to clean and tin it. Especially a new iron. Worked like pie for me.
Dewey Trogdon wrote: BrentThe Shack has .032 rosin core solder which is really small and suitable for delicate work. Also have sharp tipped 25 watt soldering irons.
Brent
The Shack has .032 rosin core solder which is really small and suitable for delicate work. Also have sharp tipped 25 watt soldering irons.
lionroar88 wrote: Roger Bielen wrote: Brent, when soldering I've found, what I call, surgical clamps invaluable. They look like scissors. I have a couple of different sizes, some with straight tips and some with curved. I addition to holding wires while soldering they also serve as heat sinks. Being stainless the solder doesn't stick to them. I got mine at a flea market a number of years ago.For circuit boards I'd use the thinnest solder (rosin core) I could get with a fine tipped iron.Thanks for the tips! Not sure where I could find surgical equipment on such short notice... jaabat wrote: Brent,I've heard bad things about that cold point soldering iron. A 15, 25, or 40 watt pencil tipped iron is only $8:00 at Radio Shack. You should also buy some tip tinner and cleaner. It's in a little can and you dip the hot iron into the paste to clean and tin it. Especially a new iron. Worked like pie for me.Jim,Me too - personal experience actually - you can't leave the tip in contact very long or the plastic holder will begin to melt - very bad design flaw!I was figuring I would pick up something with a very fine tip, and some very fine solder. Thanks for the tip on the tip tinner! I'll pick some of that up as well!I use the cold point soldering iron for quick jobs now, I used it to create all my connection point connectors for the Christmas layout, and now realize their wire I used is under sized, so I have to go back and redo some of it... the switches are fine, as are the city lights and the few accessories I have, but I want to change out the track feeds with something larger than the 18 AWG I used - lionelsoni don't jump on me! I didn't know any better till I read all the posts on wiring you and the others have made!
Thanks for the tips! Not sure where I could find surgical equipment on such short notice...
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
Here's what you need for the third (and fourth) hand when soldering:
http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/Helping_Hands_and_Soldering_Aids.html
I have been soldering almost all my life; and I have always been irritated by the usual advice never to apply solder until the piece is hot. I often find it useful (and sometimes essential) to use just a little solder on the iron as a wetting agent to get the heat into the piece.
Bob Nelson
lionelsoni wrote: Here's what you need for the third (and fourth) hand when soldering:http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/Helping_Hands_and_Soldering_Aids.htmlI have been soldering almost all my life; and I have always been irritated by the usual advice never to apply solder until the piece is hot. I often find it useful (and sometimes essential) to use just a little solder on the iron as a wetting agent to get the heat into the piece.
Bob is right on that one [about solder on the tip]. Do it all the time. Also, go spend $75 and buy a Radio Shack Soldering Station. Soldering iron built into a control station with iron holder and a spounge for cleaning tip. It is digital heat control. You dial in the heat you need and it holds it. That way you can adjust the heat. If too cool, dial it up a little. Too hot, dial it down.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
I've got one of the helping hands and it is great! Can't imagine not having one now.
Jim
A great recommendation.
These old eyes use the one with the magnifying glass. Aside from freeing up hands it also saves your fingers from become a heat sinc. They're also a versitile model buiding aid for us with shakey hands.
Bruce Webster
ChiefEagles wrote: lionelsoni wrote: Here's what you need for the third (and fourth) hand when soldering:http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/Helping_Hands_and_Soldering_Aids.htmlI have been soldering almost all my life; and I have always been irritated by the usual advice never to apply solder until the piece is hot. I often find it useful (and sometimes essential) to use just a little solder on the iron as a wetting agent to get the heat into the piece.Bob is right on that one [about solder on the tip]. Do it all the time. Also, go spend $75 and buy a Radio Shack Soldering Station. Soldering iron built into a control station with iron holder and a spounge for cleaning tip. It is digital heat control. You dial in the heat you need and it holds it. That way you can adjust the heat. If too cool, dial it up a little. Too hot, dial it down.
I've a 75 watt soldering station and it replaces all the others. If you need a bit of heat, just dail it a bit down, more heat, dail it up. I can solder wire to tracks and small resistors on prints with it. Normally you'll need 2 different solder irons for those jobs..
lionelsoni wrote: . . .I have been soldering almost all my life; and I have always been irritated by the usual advice never to apply solder until the piece is hot. I often find it useful (and sometimes essential) to use just a little solder on the iron as a wetting agent to get the heat into the piece.
Bob, I've only been soldering since Monday. But I discovered that trick almost immediately! I thought for sure I was doing something wrong. But if you do it, it's got to be OK.
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
lionelsoni wrote: I have been soldering almost all my life; and I have always been irritated by the usual advice never to apply solder until the piece is hot. I often find it useful (and sometimes essential) to use just a little solder on the iron as a wetting agent to get the heat into the piece.
While not exactly the same this is close to a technique I learned years back called "loading the iron". What you do is melt solder on the heated tip of the iron. It will hold a nice little bit. Let the iron continue to heat. Now you can touch the iron to the task which has had flux applied. The iron will melt the flux and the solder will frow from the tip to the task. This is often helpful when you don't have those clamps!
lionelsoni wrote:Here's what you need for the third (and fourth) hand when soldering:http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/Helping_Hands_and_Soldering_Aids.htmlI have been soldering almost all my life; and I have always been irritated by the usual advice never to apply solder until the piece is hot. I often find it useful (and sometimes essential) to use just a little solder on the iron as a wetting agent to get the heat into the piece.
BTW, these are also available at Radio Shack which is where I got mine many years ago. A little more expensive than on line, but you do not pay shipping, no minimum order and you can have it the same day!
- Luther
A little solder on the tip improves heat transfer.....a very good thing.
underworld
Ditto on that Bill, I could never figure it out why they would suggest that. Also makes for less time for heating up and melting things, and it creates a really professionaly joint that is even and smooth.
Another one I het annoyed with is never put flux on and electrical joint. I do see why they say this, alot of older fluxes were of the acid-type, and leaving it on caused it to destroy whatever surface it was applied on, after awhile. I use acid-free flux with rosin core 40/60. I do also just put enough flux on to do the job, a little dab will do you!
No one has added this but a very useful and cheap soldering aid is the common wooden clothes peg because its easy to Dremel it to any special shape you might need and the wood doesnt bleed heat away as clamps sometimes can do. The latter is useful when you need a heat sink to protect an IC or delicate component but sometimes thats not the case and you are struggling to get the work hot enough.
Though most people tend to have older irons that put out too much for delicate work, or are too klutzy, its useful to have a larger iron as well as a small one. The latter are almost useless for soldering rails tgether, for example, a job that one of those big Weller guns will do in a moment. Sometimes a lot of heat applied quickly does less damage.
A wet sponge to keep the iron tip clean and remove the crud that builds up is almost better than having flux. Fluxing a dirty tip isnt half as effective as a damp wipe down.
However tempted you may be to use your soldering iron tip to melt holes in plastic or shape plastic be aware that doing so tends to corrode them, I dunno why, I guess its the chemicals in the stuff but it doesnt do them any good. Keep an old iron for that.
The best way to get a quick join is to 'tin' the two pieces first, which means to melt a thin film of solder onto them, then when you put the two together and heat them with the iron the two tinned surfaces will bond almost at once. Also if a piece is going to give you trouble you'll find out by trying to tin it and failing. Better that way then holding them together for ages whilst you burn fingers and melt blobs of solder and watch it roll off as you try in vain to get it to stick.
NEVER leave an iron on and unattended. They'll for sure do some damage to something and even if you have a proper stand - which you should - theres always a chance that someone or something will catch the dangling flex and pull the iron off its stand.
If I may presume to translate, "flex" is British for the power cord. You know, the thing you plug into the power point to connect to the mains...;-)
One thing that confuses me is the damp sponge wiping. When I wiped my iron across the damp spnge, it removed some of the solder from the tip. Is that what it's supposed to do? Don't I want the tip to keep a bit of solder on it?
Jim,
You don't want old solder on the tip. It will create oxidation and will block heat transfer. Wipe the tip and then put a bit of fresh solder on the tip.
I am just using my solder for small stuff like DPDT micro switches. For most other projects such as track joints etc I'm using a small butane torch and for larger projects a propane torch. it gets the work done faster.
FJ and G wrote:Jim,You don't want old solder on the tip. It will create oxidation and will block heat transfer. Wipe the tip and then put a bit of fresh solder on the tip.I am just using my solder for small stuff like DPDT micro switches. For most other projects such as track joints etc I'm using a small butane torch and for larger projects a propane torch. it gets the work done faster.
So wipe the tip clean at the end of a work session and add fresh solder at the beginning of the next one?
Wipe the tip every time you pick the iron up to start soldering anything. This will remove the dross that has formed since the last time you used it and leave a thin layer of clean solder.
You can buy a soldering stand with a small tray to hold the sponge. Brush the accumulated solder and dirt off the sponge with your finger when it is dry. To wet the sponge without making a mess, just fill the tray about halfway, then lay the dry sponge on top. In a minute, it will be wet and sunk into the tray. I use an old plastic dishwashing-detergent bottle to keep a supply of water near the bench. I don't fill it more than halfway, so that, if it tips over, it won't spill out.
Every few years, you'll need a new sponge. Just cut a cheap cellulose sponge to fit your tray.
Chief, et. al.,
Is this the Radio Shack Soldering Iron you are talking about:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062750&cp=2032058&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032058&categoryId=2032058&kwCatId=2032058&kw=solder&parentPage=search
Buckeye Riveter wrote: Chief, et. al.,Is this the Radio Shack Soldering Iron you are talking about:http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062750&cp=2032058&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032058&categoryId=2032058&kwCatId=2032058&kw=solder&parentPage=search
This is the long-out-of-production Weller iron that I use:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Weller-TC202-Soldering-Station-w-Soldering-Pencil_W0QQitemZ250073880914QQihZ015QQcategoryZ109556QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/WELLER-WTCP-TC202-SOLDERING-STATION-WITH-SOLDER-IRON_W0QQitemZ220072409279QQihZ012QQcategoryZ109556QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/WELLER-WTCPR-SOLDER-STATION-W-IRON-EXTRA-TIPS-BOX_W0QQitemZ200071273418QQihZ010QQcategoryZ109556QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/WELLER-TC202-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION_W0QQitemZ220074410710QQihZ012QQcategoryZ109556QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The solder sucker I use may be the one pictured in this Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desoldering
It was made in the sixties and has been repaired over and over. It has a rubber knob for arming that pops out when you trigger it. This must have led to lawsuits for eye damage, because all the subsequent suckers that I have ever seen have that part guarded in some way.
The Radio Shack model looks similiar to Bob's Weller.
lionelsoni wrote:Wipe the tip every time you pick the iron up to start soldering anything. This will remove the dross that has formed since the last time you used it and leave a thin layer of clean solder.You can buy a soldering stand with a small tray to hold the sponge. Brush the accumulated solder and dirt off the sponge with your finger when it is dry. To wet the sponge without making a mess, just fill the tray about halfway, then lay the dry sponge on top. In a minute, it will be wet and sunk into the tray. I use an old plastic dishwashing-detergent bottle to keep a supply of water near the bench. I don't fill it more than halfway, so that, if it tips over, it won't spill out.Every few years, you'll need a new sponge. Just cut a cheap cellulose sponge to fit your tray.
Thanks, Bob. I do have the stand with built-in sponge tray. I guess I was asking, should I clean all solder off the tip when finished with it? Or should I leave some on? I left some on figuring it would protect the tip from oxidation.
It doesn't matter, because you would not be able to wipe all the solder off a tinned iron anyway.
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