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Transformer Question

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Transformer Question
Posted by tex702 on Monday, January 8, 2007 6:40 PM
     I have what was an NYC Flyer starter set.  It has now grown to a five sheet  4x8 plywood layout.  I am still laying track, connecting the four Fastrack Remote Controlled switches.  Two sheets of plywood have been dedicated to be the train yard.  While wiring the switches I turned on the transformer and I immediately started smelling a burning smell from the transformer.  It is a CW-80 which I didnt care much for anyway.  No great harm done as far as I can see.  Right now there is only one train running on this layout.  In the future there will be as many as four.  A ZW hopefully is in my future however until that time needless to say I need another transformer.  The transfomer that I need does not have to be able to run more than one train for now.  The four Fastrack remote switches will be running off a seperate power source possibly another CW-80 or something else if I could get some advise.  However I am in need of another transfomer for the present time.  I am not made of money or I would have had my ZW already.  Please be easy on me when recommending another, better, more reliable transformer.  The remote switches are already wired for a seperate power supply.  Any recommendations?  Any and all suggestions will be greately appreciated.   Oh yeah this is an O guage layout.  Thanksfor any help.  GO GATORS!!!!
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 8, 2007 6:55 PM

I think you may have run into the number-one problem with the CW-80, assuming it was manufactured prior to Sept 06 or thereabouts. There have been reams written about this screw-up which Lionel has never acknowledged. However, they have quietly fixed it after more than 3 years -- so some of us believe.

If your CW-80 is less than a year old, see whether you can get your dealer or Lionel itself to replace it. (There is no repair service for CW-80's.) Meanwhile, Bob Nelson (lionelsoni) and countless others will almost certainly advise you to get something else.

What I think you did was deliberately or accidentally connect the U posts together, assuming they were "common." They are not -- on the "old" ones. In effect you connected two "hots" together. On the old CW's the A and B posts were  "common," and can be used that way but doing so will reverse the function of the whistle and bell buttons, which is the standard workaround if you can re-label them and live with it. If you want more details do a "search" on this forum and/or a "find" on the OGR one and you'll find more than you want to know.

Incidentally, I have heard repeatedly that the FasTrack switches are so smooth and efficient they don't need to be remotely powered. Has your experience been different?

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Posted by willpick on Monday, January 8, 2007 7:28 PM

A replacement for your CW80 that won't cost too much would be a postwar Lionel 1033 or 1044 type transformer. I haven't priced them lately, but i've seen other posts that quote less than 50$.  Your local shop may have one or two for sale-- or you could go to Ebay-- If you can spring for 50-100$, an MTH Z750 or Z1000 would be an alternative that would provide enough power, plus you get the bell & whistle buttons(PW transformers only have a whistle button). I think I'll go search out some current prices from Ebay & post my results here---

Ok, here's what i found: 1033/1044's-- less than $50 w/shipping; Z750's most less than $50--- Z1000's from $50-100$.

HTH!

A Day Without Trains is a Day Wasted

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Posted by chuck on Monday, January 8, 2007 7:32 PM
FastTrack switches use led's for the lamp and switch controller and the switch motor itself consumes very little power.  You don't need to isolate them and use a seperate supply.
When everything else fails, play dead
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Posted by tex702 on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 3:42 AM

Thanks Wolverine I really appreciate you help.  I will post what I decided to do after the fact.  Again I really appreciate your input.

 

                                             Greg

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Posted by tex702 on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 3:46 AM
Thanks all you guys.  If the goverment would operate the way this forum does, this world would be a much better place.  Thank again Wolverine, Chuck and Willpick.  I will post my action based on you guys recommendation when I make a decision.  By the way I did contact Lionel with the problem.  Lest se what they do about it.
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Posted by jimhaleyscomet on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 10:01 AM

One other option is to purchase the "Thomas" set for just over $100 mail order.  The older set stocks come with a CW-80 (newer stock may have a powermax which has only 30W).  You would get more track and another train as well and another year warranty on the CW-80.  Justrains has an K-line Army train with transformer (again a very basic one).  You might be able to sell the track you do not need on ebay (or to me!  ;-)).

 Jim H

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Posted by phillyreading on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 10:06 AM

From everything that I have heard about the CW(can't work)-80 you will do best to get another transformer, anything but a CW-80!

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:59 AM
  They gave theirself alot of bad rep with those ! It's a shame almost every other one even 20 year old units are still working great ... I hope they fired the engineering and testing team for them . One thing Lionel is famous for is reliability !  Most of those babies became trash can weights .
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:55 AM

"Just a hobo" and others who might be interested:

May I respectfully call your attention to a thread on the OGR forum begun on 1/1/07 by "donhradio" and "Ted Bertiger"?

The CW-80 has been substantially revised. We really ought to consider the possibility that at long last things have changed for the better.

Evidently the speed of the cooling fan has been increased, and the lack-of-a-sensible-common-ground problem solved. The accessory posts AND the whistle and bell buttons now work as they should, with the two "U" posts as common or "ground." You can now easily and safely power accessories, including switches (turnouts), while retaining the as-labeled functions of the whistle and bell buttons.

I spoke to a dealer here in Maryland yesterday recently who claims that over the past year he has sold "...dozens of CW-80's, and not one has come back." Did I believe him? Not really, but I think things have improved. In any event, why not give the new ones a chance to establish their own reputation -- good or bad? (I just wish they had given them a new name to make the revised ones more distinguishable from the early ones.)

I'm not yet ready to suggest going out and buying a CW-80 -- hence no direct response to this thread -- but I am interested in learning the experiences folks have had with the revised ones.

Once again, I cannot get a direct link to post here, but one can go to that other forum and use the advanced "find" function. Simply type "donhradio" without the quotation marks, in the author block and browse through his posts to find the one about the CW-80 dated 1/1/07.

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:31 PM
 Yes but did lionel re-imburse all the poor folks who bought thousands of junk ones ?   They should have . I'm sure it made thousands of first time buyers ...who we need ... run right out and buy another lionel set right away..... Banged Head [banghead] 
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:12 PM

"Just a Hobo,"

I certainly agree that Lionel should have recalled the original ones. But I don't know quite what you mean by the "poor folks who bought the junkers." As I understand it, Lionel was ready and willing to REPLACE any defective CW-80 that was brought to their attention within one year of purchase, if it was bought from an authorized dealer and if the owner had a receipt. The customer was not required to undergo the hassle and expense of returning the unit -- just a phone call. That's a whole lot better than nothing, particulary in the face of a huge lawsuit that literally sent them into bankruptcy.

Folks who bought them on the cheap from the well-known auction house or elsewhere, and who received a device that didn't work, need to seek satisfaction from the seller.

Did you read the post by donhradio on the other forum? I think it gives some real insight into what was going on at the corporate level during this fiasco, and few would argue that nobody should be fired. Evidently, somebody finally was; but it took far too long.

My concern is, and alway has been, with the overally public-relations disaster that has existed over the past three years or so, when heaven-knows how many kids were introduced to toy trains only to be terribly disappointed on Christmas or their birthday or whatever. I have never suggested that anybody go out and buy a CW-80, but have typed my fingers to the bone trying to help those who already had one. In many cases, we were able to salvage something, via a workaround, some obscure clause in the Owner's Manual, attention to the warranty, or the like.

Before I shuffle off this mortal coil I'd like to be able to recommend the revised CW, but I don't have enough data to do so yet. In this light I'd sorely like for people to make it clear when they complain about their CW's whether they have a new one or an original one; or better yet, report some good news if and when they have some.

This has not been a very proud chapter in the history of Lionel, but it may be just that -- history. Some, perhaps many, CW's had their problems, but at least they weren't Pintos.

 

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Posted by jimhaleyscomet on Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:58 PM

Does anyone know the date code for the "improved" CW-80's.  I for one love the CW-80.  Sure it has (or had) some problems.  Still, Lionel did send out replacements and not even request the old one back. 

 For those who have an old one that croaked....I am sure there are some hobbiests that went out and purchased a new set....sending in the old transformer with the new set receipt.  Not saying they should.

I think Lionel has done a good job standing behind a horrible mistake!  Remember it is not whether you make mistakes (everyone does!), it is how you respond to them.  

Jim H 

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:38 PM

jimhaleyscomet,

jim,

I've been asking the same question on both forums. In addition, I have tried to do a little research (yesterday) and will try again tomorrow. Yesterday I found a local dealer who was willing to open two, one from a set and one stand-alone version. Both were the new types; that is, the U terminals were common. In both cases, the date code, which in my experience had always been four-digit numeric, was now a five digit alpha-numeric, specifically G0606 and G0806. Perhaps the "G" is what we are looking for.

Why does it have to be so difficult? Does anybody know the true story here? Folks who intend to buy new CW-80's, whether in sets or stand-alone, really need to know this.

One thing we seem to know from this: at least some of the CW-80's manufactured as early as June 06 are the revised type.

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Posted by anjdevil2 on Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:06 PM

Just to add more fuel to this thread....

Just before Christmas, my CW started making noise.  I brought it and my receipt to my LHS, a service dealer, for a look see.  He tested it and then it started making noise.  He grabed a replacement unit and gave it to me.  He never asked me for my receipt.  I got back to work and shot off an e-mail to Lionel about my experience.  I later got an e-mail back from them saying that they were pleased that I was satisfied and would notify those people that were "appropriate".  The next day, the replacement unit  started making the same noise.Banged Head [banghead]

I haven't had the heart to go back for another replacement (though I may well do that soon).

 

I am the monster in your head...And I thought you'd learn by now, It seems you haven't yet.
I am the venom in your skin  --- Breaking Benjamin


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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:40 PM

anjdevil2,

Would you be so good as to provide the full date of manufacture from the bottoms of both transformers; or at least from the replacement that you received?

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Posted by anjdevil2 on Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:50 PM

The replacement is 04/06, the original one was a 2005 date.  I think it was 12/05.  I bought the set from Charles Ro in Feb 2006.  That was a NYC Flyer set.  I'm pretty sure it was 12/05 though.

I'm probably going for another replacement this weekend.  I'll let you know what date that is  

I am the monster in your head...And I thought you'd learn by now, It seems you haven't yet.
I am the venom in your skin  --- Breaking Benjamin


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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:00 PM

anjdevil2,

Thank you. It seems likely that the first one that went bad was an old one. The 0406 one might also be an old one* -- especially as it has no alpha prefix. Why not try to get one of the revised ones this time? We are testing the theory that the presence/absence of an  alpha prefix is significant. I would try to get a replacement that has a date code in the form G0806, as opposed to a simple 0806. Ask the dealer to do a continuity check across the U posts with an ohmmeter. U and U should be common if it is a revised one.

We have no data on reliability of the new ones, but in terms of necessaryand long-awaited design corrections, the new ones should be a whole lot better than the old ones. Why settle for a replacement that is obsolete?

If you have an ohmmeter you can easily check the one you have. Look for a reading of zero ohms across U and U; and some reading much greater than zero between A and B. If you see zero ohms between A and B, it is an old one. To avoid doing any damage,  check the continuity with the unit unplugged and nothing connected to the posts.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 12, 2007 8:47 AM
 anjdevil2 wrote:

Just to add more fuel to this thread....

Just before Christmas, my CW started making noise.  I brought it and my receipt to my LHS, a service dealer, for a look see.  He tested it and then it started making noise.  He grabed a replacement unit and gave it to me.  He never asked me for my receipt.  I got back to work and shot off an e-mail to Lionel about my experience.  I later got an e-mail back from them saying that they were pleased that I was satisfied and would notify those people that were "appropriate".  The next day, the replacement unit  started making the same noise.Banged Head [banghead]

I haven't had the heart to go back for another replacement (though I may well do that soon).

 



anj,
What noise is it making?  I have two, one unopened, and the opened one I bought off EBay, all I hear is the fan running, nothing more.

Brent

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Posted by anjdevil2 on Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:59 AM

lionroar,

It sounds like the cooling fan.  It squeels & squalls for a while, then is goes away, like a bad wheel bearing in a car.  Operationally it's fine, just disturbs the wife with the noise.

 

I am the monster in your head...And I thought you'd learn by now, It seems you haven't yet.
I am the venom in your skin  --- Breaking Benjamin


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