Good transformers?

[Anonymous]

I am looking to get a good transformer. I have gotten suggestions on a couple but was wondering what you all think. What are good older transformer (as they are cheaper) that can still do the job with good service? This would be for mult Lionel trains.
Thanks

[Jumijo]

There are some good deals on older ZWs right now. Many are selling for between $100 and $150 for a transformer that could run up to 4 trains at once. A very good deal.

[phillyreading]

A ZW is good but if you need just the power to run trains a type Z will work, the Z is a bit differant than the ZW as there are control knobs on the top and no whistle control.  I am currently using a type Z transformer to power my American Flyer trains.

A KW is another good transformer for older trains or Williams.

If running newer trains with an older transformer you will need to put fuses on the A-D terminals to protect the electronics in the newer trains.

Lee F.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply.  I've had my eye on the zw's.  I'm thinking for now that I am looking for something I might get for 50 or less.  Some of the other transformers around 90 to 100 watt range seem to be around that price.  I really am only going to only be running two trains for now with little to no accessories.  One of my engines has railsounds so I'd like to be able to activate the horn (If I can with an older transformer).  I pretty much blew my $ on the new engine and scale rolling stock so I'm looking for something to get me threw until I can get more cash.  I eventually want to get a command system but right now I have no clue how that stuff works or what is required to get a complete system together.  I kind of feel like I've jumped head first into this, but I've got time to play catch up.  I really want to try to get something that will work well for me for what I have now as well as poss being a good back up or addition to something a little further along like the zw or command system.

Thanks

[LL675]

I have two Vs, 150 watts each. Got one for $65, and the other for less than that. I run three trains, one ,and two per transformer. Plus a few lights and accessories. had them four years with no problems.

[phillyreading]

The post war ZW is a good transformer and will meet your needs right now and may be the best for long term as you can run four trains at one time with it.  It has two whistle buttons, output terminals A & D have the whistle feature, B & C just have adjustible voltage outputs.

Lee F.

[Anonymous]

Do you use regular auto type fuses or are there some made for this type of set up?  I guess I would want to fuse any old transformer or maybe any transformer at all just to play it safe?

[phillyreading]

You should use fuses about 10 Amp range 50 volts.  Automotive fuses may blow too soon as they are designed for 12 volts DC and the ZW puts out up to 25 volts AC plus the whistle voltage about another four volts(not sure about the exact voltage on the whistle feature).  The fuses are for the older transformers with new locomotives or other electronic sysems like TMCC or DCS.    Most new transformers, within six years of today's date should not need any fuses for circuit protection as they have faster acting circuit breakers inside.

Radio Shack has fuses and fuse holders with wires and this should work.

Lee F.

[Anonymous]

Great to know.  I will make a trip asap to pick up fuses.  I would have been crazy mad if I fried my new engine!  I had no clue.  I bought this thing cause it had all these cool features but didn't think to look into what it took to actually use them and/or protect them.  NO regrets though!

[lionelsoni]

Willy, fuses do not blow any faster if they are rated for a higher voltage.  Nor do circuit breakers trip faster at a higher voltage.

The ZW puts out 21 volts.  Fuses won't hurt anything; but a better protection for delicate locomotives is a transient voltage suppressor.  Here is an old topic that discusses TVSs in some detail:  http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/2/740607/ShowPost.aspx#740607

Here is a data sheet from a manufacturer listing TVSs of various voltage ratings:  http://www.centralsemi.com/leadedpdf/1.5CE6.8CA-400CA.PDF

You should get one for which the VRWM is the highest peak voltage that you plan to use.  The peak voltage is 1.4 times the RMS voltage.  Be sure to get one with the CA suffix, which means bidirectional (for AC applications).  You can get one from Mouser for less than $1.  Here is a recent topic:  http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/956035/ShowPost.aspx

Most older transformers, like the ZW and the Z, have a single circuit breaker in series with the common.  This provides no protection against faults involving connections between the multiple transformer outputs.  It is a good idea to add separate circuit breakers (or fuses if you like) in series with the individual outputs.  Here is a recent topic on circuit breakers:  http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/955308/ShowPost.aspx

[ChiefEagles]

Willy, fuses do not blow any faster if they are rated for a higher voltage.  Nor do circuit breakers trip faster at a higher voltage.

The ZW puts out 21 volts.  Fuses won't hurt anything; but a better protection for delicate locomotives is transient voltage suppressors.  Here is an old topic that discusses TVSs in some detail:

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/2/740607/ShowPost.aspx#740607

Here is a data sheet from a manufacturer listing TVSs of various voltage ratings:

http://www.centralsemi.com/leadedpdf/1.5CE6.8CA-400CA.PDF

You should get one for which the VRWM is the highest peak voltage that you plan to use.  The peak voltage is 1.4 times the RMS voltage.  Be sure to get one with the CA suffix, which means bidirectional (for AC applications).  You can get one from Mouser for less than $1.  Here is a recent topic:

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/956035/ShowPost.aspx

Most older transformers, like the ZW and the Z, have a single circuit breaker in series with the common.  This provides no protection against faults involving connections between the multiple transformer outputs.  It is a good idea to add separate circuit breakers (or fuses if you like) in series with the individual outputs.  Here is a recent topic on circuit breakers:  http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/955308/ShowPost.aspx

Bob knows his electrical stuff.  [that is what he does for a living]

[pbjwilson]

Well its not an old transformer but its a darn good one. The K-Line 100 watt transsformers that came in their better sets is a very nice transformer. No need for fuses. Has whistle and horn control. Its size is small compared to old Lionels. Voltage starts out at zero, rather than 6-8 volts, so you dont get jack rabbit starts.  Just a good, basic transformer. You might be able to find one on e-bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/K-LINE-POWER-CHIEF-120-WATT-O-GAUGE-TRANSFORMER_W0QQitemZ330051878928QQihZ014QQcategoryZ28139QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/K-Line-K-0954-K-0691-110-Watt-Transformer-w-L-Lockon_W0QQitemZ260055037489QQihZ016QQcategoryZ28139QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[jimhaleyscomet]

If this is a transformer soon to be relegated to secondary duty I would consider a new one also.  You could pick up the Thomas set online for about $100 (or even better Polar Express set for $200) and get a CW-80 in it. 

Everyone hold on to your hats!  While I would not buy a CW-80, I use the ones that came in my set for basic operation.  They have both bell and whistle and fast acting current control.  Sometimes at full power they do blow whistles though. 

Jim H

[laz 57]

I have used the Lionel 1033 transformer at 90 watts and had no problems.  It has forward reverse and horn switch.

laz57

[Birds]

Lionel KW transformers are rated for 140 watts of useable power (per service manual).  They have two throttles/voltage controls.  In good condition on ebay this would be under $100. 

The Lionel ZW transformers are rated for 180 watts of useable power (per service manual).  They have four throttles/voltage controls.

Lionel 1033 has 50 watts of useable power (per service manual).  It has one throttle, but a nice configuration (in terms of volts) of fixed voltage terminals.  Fully refurbished ones go for up to $50 on ebay.

I would consider getting two KWs.  It may be a little more than a single ZW, but in the end you will have more useable power and the same flexibility.

Based upon a watts per throttle the KW comes out ahead with 70 watts per throttle/voltage control.

The biggests issue with the KW is that is has fixed voltage posts (in addition to the two throttles/voltage controls) which come in at: 6 volts, 14 volts, and 20 volts.  These are a bit high for accessories and switches, but if you only ran one train, or had a second KW, you could use one (or both) throttles to power accessories (instead of using the fixed voltage terminals) and dial in the voltage you want.

The ZW is talked about a lot, but with 180 watts being divided between the four throttles, you have 45 watts per throttle.

The ZW does not have fixed voltage terminals.  Instead you use two of the four throttles to set the voltage for the accessory terminals.

The Lionel 1033 has fixed voltage terminals that come in at: 5, 11, and 16 volts.  This is nice for powering accessories.

Enjoy,
Chris

[ben10ben]

I'm a big fan of the LW. It's a 125 watt transformer with built-in whistle and direction controls, plus it has a really nice looking illuminated control dial.

You should be able to get one for right at or a little over $50.

[Dr. John]

I have a refurbished KW that works great on my smaller layouts. Williams new transformer looks promising is available for under $150. I also like the 1033 and use one for accessories.

If you buy a used transformer (i.e. a postwar model) be sure that it's in good operating shape with a NEW cord and that the rollers, etc. are in good shape. The good news is that nearly all of the old transformers can be refurbished as long as it is by someone who knows what they are doing!

[Anonymous]

Thanks to everyone.  I feel a little better about picking out a transformer.  I was looking at a cw-80 but it looks like they may not be a good pick on here.  Some of the other listed transformers I have looked at also seem like they might be a good pick for me.  Thank you all for all the information.  I had also not really thought about using a different manufacturer's transformer.  I was not sure of compatability with eachother.

Thanks

[RR Redneck]

Pardner, ANYTHING is better than a Lionel CW-80!

[Chris F]

One of my engines has railsounds so I'd like to be able to activate the horn (If I can with an older transformer).Thanks

Many Postwar transformers included whistle buttons, but none included a separate bell button.  If you want to be able to operate both the whistle/horn and the bell features of your RailSounds loco, you will need to wire a 15906 RailSounds activation button to a Postwar transformer.  Modern transformers include both buttons.

[Birds]

Following up on Chris F's post.

As Chris F shared, yes you can add the sound activation buttons (or build your own - lots of archived posts about that), but depending on the engines you run you may get surges in speed while the sound levers/buttons are thrown.

If you know this, then forgive me for sharing...

Old mechanical air whistles used in engines during the time of the 1033, RW, KW, ZW, etc. transformers, required an increase in voltage to activate the whistles.  Throwing the whistle lever on these transformer increased the voltage from the transformer to the track.

New engines do not need the same amount of voltage increase to activate modern sound systems.

So, if you work with an old 1033, RW, KW, or ZW transformer, and use a modern engine that does not have a mechanical air whistle, you may find that the train will speed up while the whistle lever is held in position. Depending on the modern train you run, the motor may absorb the extra volt or so that the whistle lever gernerate, and the engine may surge ahead while the lever is thrown.

MRC's "Pure Power" and "Pure Power Dual" are good examples of modern third party transformers that have a bell and whistle button (the Pure Power Dual is a lot of power for the price) and works with modern engines.  They are both pure sine wave transformers.

When MRC designed these transformers they designed them to be kind to the new generation of sound boards and they reduced the voltage these buttons produce to avoid the chance of blowing the sound boards.  As a result the bell and whistle buttons on the new MRC transformers do not produce enough voltage to activate old style mechanical air whistles.  This lack of a voltage surge is mentioned in the product manuals.

Enjoy,
Chris

[RR Redneck]

MRC is a D--- good company for transformers.

[Anonymous]

Birds, didn't know that and now I do THANKS. Again, any chance that something might get messed up and I'm going to try to avoid it. I don't want my sound board fried!!! I'll check out the MRC's

[Birds]

Willy,

I don't want you to think that I am saying the older ZW, KW, RW, or 1033 transformers will fry new sound boards.  I honestly don't know if there is the potential for that or not.

I just wanted to point out a specific operating difference between Lionel's old transformers and MRC's new ones, because it may have an impact on the operation of your trains depending on what you run.

I run a KW.  I have some newer engines, but nothing with Protosound or Rail Sounds.  My engines with sound just have simple horns.  I've never had a problem with the KW and the horns.  But all my engines get a short turbo boost when the horn sounds!


Happy Thanksgiving!

Chris

[traindaddy1]

I use an aged ZW to run 4 lines.

I know that there has been a lot of negatives written about the CW-80 but I am using one, mainly,  to power my accessories and to power a smaller 5th train line. I have had no problems.

All the best.

 

[Jumijo]

Following up on Chris F's post.

 . . . MRC's "Pure Power" and "Pure Power Dual" are good examples of modern third party transformers that have a bell and whistle button (the Pure Power Dual is a lot of power for the price) and works with modern engines.  They are both pure sine wave transformers.

When MRC designed these transformers they designed them to be kind to the new generation of sound boards and they reduced the voltage these buttons produce to avoid the chance of blowing the sound boards.  As a result the bell and whistle buttons on the new MRC transformers do not produce enough voltage to activate old style mechanical air whistles.  This lack of a voltage surge is mentioned in the product manuals.

Enjoy,
Chris

I have an MRC Pure Power Dual. It IS a lot of power for the money, and in my opinion, a nice transformer. I really like the gauges.

As for the air whistle activation - when I first got mine, it would not activate any air whistle. Now I've found that it will, at approx 12 volts. I've tried 1 post war and 2 modern Lionel air whistles and all of them activate nicely. Increasing the track voltage with the whistle button depressed makes the whistle blow stronger and offsets the slowdown of the train.

Jim