Magnetraction...where is it???

[Deputy]

More and more I am seeing less and less of Magnetraction on Lionel locomotives that I think SHOULD have it. Back in the old days it was on just about everything Lionel came out with.
Heck, it was something that Lionel featured, after it's adoption, in about every ad they ran.
Eventually, it became something on only the "high end" locos. Now, I have NO idea what Lionel's criteria is for installing it. In the 2006 catalog I see it on the SD90 loco in their Canadian Pacific Freight set. But their much more expensive Empire Builder set ($2,799.00) DOESN'T have it!!!! The Santa Fe Standard O Freight set has magnetraction on the U28CG, and so does the B&O Freight set and the Virginian FM set. But the LionMaster AC12 DOESN'T have it (cost $849). Neither dioes the C&O F-19 and it costs $1159.99!!!!

So it appears that cost has nothing to do with the Magnetraction feature. It almost seems like it is randomly applied to Lionels locos. Closer inspection shows that most of the locos with Magentraction are plastic body diesels. So you can pay $419 and get an Alco C420 WITH Magnetraction, but pay 3 times that amount for a steam loco that is supposedly top-of-the-line, and NOT get it. Most amazing of all, to me, is that NONE of the GG-1 locos have Magnetraction. Besides being a very popular loco back in the late 50s, the GG-1 was famous for being able to pull huge train manifests. Now, it comes with 'traction tires". And a price tag of $899.  

Can anyone explain this Magnetraqction mess to me?
BTW...back in the 80s William's FM Trainmasters used to have Magnetraction on their locos. I assume Lionel sued them or it just got too expensive to install. None of them have it now.

Hey! Maybe the Chinese don't know what magnets are!!!!

Dep

[RR Redneck]

Like any major corporation, Lionel is out to make the most money it can off of its products. My guess is that they put it on the lower end products to raise the price, thus allowing them to make more money. If you can sell a geep with a plastic body and magnetraction for $399, or a high end big boy with out it for $2,000, which do you think will sell?

[RR Redneck]

It could also have to do with wieght. Obvioulsy a steam locomotive that wieghs 10 + pounds will pull more than a 3-5 pound plastic body diesel. Lionel could put it on the lower end models to improve traction compensating for less wieght. I could be right, I could be wrong, it may be both, but these are my guesses.

[Deputy]

Eric: I figured the weight thing might be a reason. But one would think with a loco that cost over a grand, people would want every feature they could get on it. When you are paying that kind of price, I would think the loco would be LOADED with every option. They certainly have every other option on them. I wonder how much it costs to have Magnetraction on a loco anyway???

Dep

 

[RR Redneck]

True, but when the average modeler goes shopping, what does he usually buy when he goes to the hobby shop, the $1,500 showpiece or the $350 geep?

[Deputy]

True, but when the average modeler goes shopping, what does he usually buy when he goes to the hobby shop, the $1,500 showpiece or the $350 geep?

Ahhh...but the high end locos AREN'T aimed at the average modeler. They are aimed at the collector or high end modeler who CAN afford every option. Even worse, not ALL plastic cab diesels have Magnetraction. Lionel has been pretty random about installing Magnetraction on it's locos. You can get GP9s both with and without it. So the theory about it increasing pulling power on lighter locos may not be right either.

Dep

[chuck]

The Lionel Odyssey speed control system uses a magnetic sensor to pick up engine RPM's.  In a steam engine with a near horizontal motor, the magnetic field from a frame mounted Magnetraction magnet like those used on steam loco's might interfere with the speed control.   On a diesel with vertical can motors there is less of a chance of interaction.

BTW, the GG-1 in the current catalogs is a scale model requiring minimum O-72 curves.  These could never be run in a fashion that would benefit from Magnetraction (i.e. high speed operation on tight curves or steep grades).

[ben10ben]

Magnetraction requires solid sintered iron wheels in order to work correctly. These are fine on diesels, which generally have solid wheels that are mostly out of sight.

With steam engines, though, the wheels are an important detail. Iron won't allow you to show the fine details like rivets and spokes that we have come to expect.

The only modern high-end steamer to have Magnetraction was the Dreyfuss Hudson from a few years ago with Scullin disk drivers. These are mostly solid with just a few holes in them, so looked fine when made in sintered iron.

[ChiefEagles]

Another factor, rubber traction ties and weight actually pull better.  This is really true with some of the track systems used today [nickle silver for example].

[chuck]

While magnetraction has some benefits in running high speed on tight curves and climbing steep grades, it also will attract any small steel/iron items like staples/brads/screws and the arch enemy of all model/toy trains steel wool.  It doesn't even mater if the loco is on the track.  You can't turn it off.

[Jim Rotella]

Lionel features both MagneTraction and traction tires on its Postwar Celebration engines. The PWC GG-1 has MagneTraction but the scale GG-1's don't and neither do most of the other Lionel scale engines . If you are partial to open frame motors and MagneTraction, then you're better off sticking with the Lionel's PWC Series.

Jim

[Frank53]

Magnetraction . . . where is it?

it's over here!

[Deputy]

Well after reading all the posts so far, I have to finally agree with Eric. I think it is more a cost factor or perhaps a "simplification factor" more than any of the other proposed reasons. I would not be surprised to see Magnetraction eliminated completely from Lionel's lineup. BTW....Magnetraction is also quite useful in going up steep grades, not just wizzing around curves. Maybe when these cheapo traction tires start wearing out quickly, people will change their minds and Lionel's minds. Time will tell.

Dep

[Curmudgeon]

Since MagneTraction also depends on a completed path for the magnet, running it in my GarGraves track was far less effective than on my old 072 track.

Then, factor in stainless rail, and it doesn't work at all.

The sintered wheels are an issue.

I am extremely partial to the "Baldwin Discs" on the older steam, never interested in the ones with sintered wheels, altho I have.......two steamers with them (what, 665? style Hudsons?) but my old 675,s 225E's, 736's (mine were back-fitted with 1946 726 drivers about.....30 years ago) LOOK better.

 

I'll give up MagneTraction on GarGraves for appearance any day....especially with all my locos converted to front couplers, if I need the "grunt" I add a loco.

 

On the old LOTS modules, we'd run, oh, 60-75 car trains, double-headed, with a helper 60% back in tonnage.

Drove the tinplaters nutz!

[Jumijo]

Magnetraction . . . where is it?

it's over here!

I hate when you do that, Frank!!! You're killing me!!



My kid's Percy locomotive of all things,  has magnatraction.

Jim

[chuck]

If you want to "add" "magnetraction" to any locomotive or car, just glue a magnet under the frame.  Peter Riddle had this in one of his early Tips/Tricks books, he used refrigerator magnet material.  If you want to "soup it up" use the rare earth magnets found in the voice coil actuators inside modern disk drives.  These are extremely powerful rare earth magnets and should be handled with care.  You could probably hang a car upside down using rare earth magnets with steel track or a steel plate under the track.

If you use stainles steel or nickel silver track, just install some sheet metal under the track.  Magnetic fields are quite capable of jumping air gaps.  On regular Gargraves, a couple of short sections of sheet metal across the bottom of the ties will allow the field to jump from one side to the other.  The metal doesn't have to make electrical contact, the magnet on the loco will induce a magnetic field in the track which will induce a field in the "jumper" to complete the north/south pole "circuit".

BTW, the real railroads have experimented with both "magntraction" and rubber tires.  The traction tires tend to turn to goo under the extreme weights involved with real railroad equipment.  There are a couple of transit systems that have used real rubber tires on the wheels of their cars.  The cars do have a smooth ride but the tires require frequent replacement.  The Magnetraction affect is so minimal compared to the weight/mass of the objects involved that is wasn't considered worth it either.  The magnetized wheels also tended to pick up stuff they weren't supposed to and the heat/pounding normal to real railroading tended to lead to rapid demagnetization.


"It seemed like a good idea at the time"

[ChiefEagles]

Good info Chuck.

[Deputy]

Great ideas Chuck!!!

Dep

[Frank53]

I hate when you do that, Frank!!! You're killing me!!

Jim

Ouch - I forgot - sorry about that.

Really.

 

[Jumijo]

OOOOOOOOh - UNCLE . . . UNCLE!!!

You nasty guy! 

I'm sending a special courier down there to pick those 2343 F3's up. His name is Columbus, but everyone calls him Frank. He talks with a thick Southern accent. He should be there soon. If not today, tomorrow. Make sure he takes everything - boxes, paper, and all.