Wiring for future TMCC?

[dwiemer]

Ok, as a staunch conventional guy with no TMCC engines yet (my K-line F3s are not mine yet as my bride is holding them hostage till Christmas), I have the following question(s).

I am in the process of completing the benchwork for the layout and will be soon laying track and running wires for same.  Not that I will be doing it any time soon, but, should I convert to TMCC, what considerations should I make with regard to running wires?  Should I run a spare wire to the switches and other items like remote operating tracks?  I am using all Fastrack for this layout and wonder if any other considerations while I have plenty of access to the layout before any scenery, etc.

Also, what are the needed items to get the TMCC up and running?  I currently have a PW ZW, KW, 1033, and several CW80's and some other assorted transformers.  Thanks to Bob N., I know that I will need fastblow breakers, anything else to consider.  I doubt I will be jumping on the TMCC bandwagon any time soon, but ya never know.  I want to be prepared and would much rather plan ahead.

Thanks again for so much information that I have gained from this site.

Dennis

[Roger Bielen]

Dennis, to get into TMCC you'll need: base station; TPC 300 or 400 (300 & 400 are watt rating) or at a minimun a Power Master; and a CAB unit.  As you wire your layout I'd modify the switches and remote tracks to be on auxilliary power, no need for a full 18V on these.

If you need more detail contact me direct.

[lionelsoni]

Dennis, although I have preached a lot about using circuit breakers (or fuses) to protect transformers and wiring, I have never advocated fast circuit breakers as protection for locomotive electronics.  Fast circuit breakers and fuses certainly do no harm and may help somewhat by opening the circuit before very many inductive voltage spikes have been produced by a derailment or other fault.  But I do believe that the best protection for the overly delicate locomotives that go along with TMCC and other modern control systems is transient voltage suppressors.  TVSs are a more direct protection, since they can eliminate the spikes themselves, and right from the beginning of the mishap.

I have no real interest in nor specific knowledge about TMCC; so I'm not qualified to make any recommendations about it. 

[luther_stanton]

Dennis,

I really ran no special wire configuration.  I did run track power separate from all accessories, with all power sources phased and sharing a single common.  I used 12 gauge wire for the track bus with 14 gauge feeders every 3 to 4 feet.  For each hot wire (center rail) I also used one common wire.  It may be overkill, but I have had 0 problems from day one.

I also ran separate 4 power blocks but have not needed more than a single TPC with one POHO to power everything - but I never run more than a single train.  My track plan would only support that with some really quick manipulations of the CAB-1!

You can run direct power to the tracks from any of your power sources, however if you want to run conventional with the CAB-1, I believe you will need at least on TPC.You may also need a BPC to manage the power to the blocks, again, depending upon you conventional running requirements. If you ZW is one of the newer ones, I believe it will act like a TPC - that is able to have voltage output controlled via the CAB-1.  I would also suggest some SC-2s or ASCs to control switches and accessories from the CAB-1.  I also believe that any SC-2 investment will be compatible with TMCC-II.

I am using Atlas switches so my set up with SC-2s and wiring will probably be a bit different.

- Luther

[dwiemer]

Wow, quick responses.  Thanks again Bob for the correction.  Also, thanks Luther and Roger.  I do plan on running separate power for the switches anyway, so that may be all I need to concern myself at this wiring stage, but I guess I will quickly run into more questions as I go.  I may be giving you a call Roger!

Thanks again,

Dennis

[jefelectric]

Dennis, I agree with all that has been said about TMCC, however if you are even remotely considering DCS, then you need to take that into consideration.  DCS does require some basic changes in wiring methods.

I run both and most of the time use the DCS handheld to run my TMCC locos.  The reason is that, for me at least it is more intuitive to use.  Also the grand kids take to that handheld without much instruction, whereas the TMCC handheld is a little difficult for them since it isn't labeled as well.  That may change with the new legacy system.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

One thing I forgot, with small children, unless you set the top speed very low, the TMCC handheld lets them wind it up pretty fast.  The DCS handheld limits how fast you can advance the speed.  If you try to spin the thumb wheel to fast, it doesn't keep up and the train doesn't take off like a jack rabbit.

[csxt30]

When I got my 1st. TMCC set, I was told to run a copper wire all the way around the layout . I stripped the wires out of the housewiring, right down to the bare copper & ran that all the way around the layout. This is for the wires to drop down from the outer rails, in my case Gargraves, or outer rail of tubular track & solder my feeder wires to it every so often. I just drilled holes in the benchwork & ran it through there all the way around. This was regular househod wire, I think like 12-2 with ground. This is not the hot wire. I don't hear of this technique being used any more, maybe Roger knows. Sure works great for me.

Thanks, John

[luther_stanton]

Dennis, I agree with all that has been said about TMCC, however if you are even remotely considering DCS, then you need to take that into consideration.  DCS does require some basic changes in wiring methods.

John,

I have heard many times that there are differences in wiring TMCC vs DCS but have never read what the differences are.  Can you briefly detail the differences in wiring needed?  I have considered more than once also installing DCS.  At the current time, I think I would get more value out of DCS than Legacy [gulp!].

Thanks,
Luther

[cheech]

A COUPLE OF IDEAS. 

1.CONVENTIONAL AND TMCC WORK WELL TOGETHER IF YOU INVEST IN THE TPC EQUIPMENT.

2. HEED BOB'S ADVICE ABOUT TVS TO KEEP THE SPIKES OUT AND PROTECT YOUR EQUIPMENT

3. USE COLORED WIRE AND BARRIER STRIPS FOR THE POWER BUS, AND KEEP THE SW/ACC POWERED SEPARATELY....IT WILL SAVE YOU HEADACHES LATER.

4. NEATNESS COUNTS IN WIRING PLANS WITH TMCC.

5. INVEST IN A 12-13 DOLLAR Z-STUFF DATA DRIVER-- IT FITS ON THE COMMAND BASE AND  IT WILL HELP YOU ESTABLISH A DATA BUS AROUND THE LAYOUT FOR ALL OF YOUR TMCC RUN SWITCHES AND ACCESSORIES...WORTH IT IN THE END.

6. LOOK UP THE ARCHIVE FOR MORE THREADS ON THIS SUBJECT.  THERE'S A LOT OF USEFUL INFO COVERED IN THEM THAT WILL HELP IN WIRE PLANNING.

THERE IS ANOTHER FORUM THAT IS TMCC SPECIFIC...YOU MAY WANT TO LOOK THERE TOO

GOOD LUCK

RALPH

 

[jefelectric]

John,

I have heard many times that there are differences in wiring TMCC vs DCS but have never read what the differences are.  Can you briefly detail the differences in wiring needed?  I have considered more than once also installing DCS.  At the current time, I think I would get more value out of DCS than Legacy [gulp!].

Thanks,
Luther

Luther, See the attached link for Barry's rules. He knows a lot more than I about DCS.

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/93360682/m/5411079704?r=1531079014#1531079014

Basicly you need to run home runs to a centrally located terminal strip from each track feed point.

[luther_stanton]

Thanks John!

[ChiefEagles]

Dennis, wire for DCS and then run TMCC.  Eventually you will have both.  I know you.  Operating conventionals with TMCC [TPC] on its remote is hundreds times better than operating them with DCS.  I know [been there and done that].  I went with DCS first and only added TMCC months later.  Later, with the advice of Roy, added a TPC.  Now I run all conventionals with TMCC remote.  I'm glad I have DCS as I run my PS2's with DCS remote and my TMCC engines with TMCC remote.  I run mainly TMCC engine lashups and you can not do that with DCS [well you can but you have to "cheat" the system in a special way and then you can't run them seperately].

[dwiemer]

thanks everyone for your responses.  one thing that i may add as it is on lionel's web site, is that you should not bundle the wires or in anyway cause a magnetic field as this could cause problems with communications/operations/function.  i don't know about this, but if i was the one with answers, i would not have started the thread.

dennis