The Cheapest/Simplest Solution for a Modern Horn/Whistle in Old Tender/Diesel

[pgtr]

Requirements:
1 Works with 3 rail O guage PW diesels or tenders (horn or whistle)
2 Works with AC
3 Works with PW transformer with Whistle button
4 Blasts a good sounding horn or whistle similar to what a modern Lionel or MTH might sound like
5 Does not include extra features for TMCC or DCC such as lots of sound effects, electronic e-unit etc...
6 Small, simple and inexpensive

What would be the simplest cheapest options for integrating a modern sounding steam whistle or diesel horn say with a speaker and an electronic board or module...? Something that will blast a good sound when I mash the whistle button on my old LW or ZW.

I've read a number of previous threads here. I've searched on the web. Here's what I've found so far but I'm wondering if my summaries are accurate or if I'm missing any others...

* ElectricRR.com: Sound Commander 49.95
This one appears to be the best candidate. It doesn't include a lot of extraneous sound 'effects' I'm not interested in and it doesn't try to include any interface w/ e units, TMCC or whatever. Appears to simply hook into existing pickups, works w/ AC and gives a few choices of which horn or whistle blast and that's it. This one seems to be the best fit for my reqs.

* Digitdynam.com: Railsounds Complete 89.95
Similar to above but more expensive.

* TAStudios.com: SAWBoard $165-$174
Appears to be much more sophisticated with extra 'features' that exceed my requirements and add to the cost and complexity.

* Dallee.com: Locomatic(?)
Not much information on this one but suspect it's similar to the SAWBoard mentioned above...

* QSISolutions.com(?) (whistle: 'Tooter' or diesel: 'Hooter') ~$70
Lack of info. It's been referenced in discussions and I've found it at one hobby stores website but their own website doesn't even acknowledge it exists. Appears to be similar to the Sound Commander but costs more.

Are there other options beyond the 5 I've found here? Are my summaries or perceptions for each accurate?

---

I believe all of these assume you already have a center rail pickup. In some cases I do. In one or two cases I have an old tender that never came with a center pickup. Are there any inexpensive ways to add a simple pickup to a basic tender? Perhaps a simple aftermarket kit of some sort?

[brianel027]

Well the cheapest and simpliest solution is the MRC Sound Station 312 for about $50 give or take a few dollars. It's an independent unit that runs off a wall outlet and has a handheld (or mountable) controller and 2 speakers. You get choices of 18 railroad sounds including steam and diesel. The horn on this sounds worlds better than any horn on any postwar or modern low end unit. I mean the postwar horn was a bicycle buzzer and the new one was some kind of circuit board that made an electronic blurp that I suppose is a horn sound.

Granted, the MRC 312 is not Railsounds, and it does have some limitations as far as the combinations of sounds that can be activated at one time, but for the price, it can't be beat. No hookup or wiring aggrivations and you get whistle and horn as well as the other sounds.

The MRC Sound Station goes on my list as one of the best practical innovative train products of the past decade. Railsounds may have done more for the prestige of the hobby, but for it's price and simple set up, the Sound Station will do more for your budget... and it's a real kid pleaser too.

[dwiemer]

I bought one of these units at Hobby Lobby and used the 40% coupon from the web site.  Came to about $40.  I agree that it is good for the added train sounds.  I think that my route will be to add a diesle sound car and a steam sound car to the consist.

dennis

[pgtr]

Thanks. THese appear to be a pair of computer speakers and some sort of sound generator. Considering the amount of old spare PCs and PC speakers I (and probably others) seem to have tucked away that aren't worth anything I could probably hook something up and download some WAVs off the net.

In fact I might even hook up a simple old fashioned Lionel operating switch (to keep the layout look and feel) and run the wire to a serial port, monitor for open/close and trigger whatever WAV file I liked. Park the PC and speakers out of the way under a table or something. Won't cost much of anything other than time.

I received other suggestions referencing diesel horns from Williams and Weaver for $30 and $35 respectively which I think should fit in a dummy unit quite nicely.

[BobbyDing]

I have installed the ElectricRR Sound Commander in a few small (slopeback) tenders. Works and sounds excellent. Sound starts at about 6 volts, so as long as your PW motor doesn't start running before, say, 7 volts, your golden. I bought some used trucks with center rail pickups off ebay to add the pickups to the tenders. Originally this was to extend the pickup for my small locos going over large switches. Adding sound was an after thought. Very happy with the SC units. In conventional mode (which is all I run rite now) the steam unit has whistle, chuff, bell, and some steam FX when the loco is sitting idle. Works with my 1033 xformers. I have not tried the other manufacturers you listed. The SC fits all my present needs (I plan on buying a few more in the future). Hope that helps some. Maybe somebody can add their experiences with the other units. I'd like to hear about them too.

Bobby

[jefelectric]

Just got a Williams flyer yesterday that has a horn/bell for diesels and a whistle/bell for steam.  Price is $29.95 for either one.  That is pretty hard to beat.  Their phone # is 410-997-7766 if you are interested.

As for pickup rollers, Lionel offers some clip on pickup rollers that work on some trucks and also offers some trucks with pickup rollers as replacement parts.  Don't have the cat nos handy but will check when time permits and repost if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

[cnw1995]

Dare I go one level lower? I have a kid's whistle (which you blow into) and am looking for a real bell that I would operate by hand. I've also used a CD recording of diesel horn / sounds that I activate manually - and also an old tape-operated answering machine into which I have recorded sounds....

[pgtr]

Thanks. I like what you did w/ the tender. I've got a Marx and a Lionel slopeback and that sounds like a neat idea.

One thing I don't quite understand... many models mention BOTH a diesel horn AND bell. When I would press a horn button on say a ZW or LW postwar transformer - would that button activate BOTH a 'horn' and a 'bell' sound at the same time? Just curious about the bell vs horn sound since several units list both sounds in their specs.

I think the weaver and williams units are on backorder for now.

thanks again

[BobbyDing]

Ah, yes, you bring up a good point about the bell.

 

Let me first just say that I'm not affiliated with electricRR. Just a happy customer. The eRR SC (electricRR Sound Commander) is all I have any experience with. I haven't tried the other add-on sound boards you mention (except for the Williams, see below). The SC can be accessed via TMCC to unlock more features, but that's not an option for me rite now. I'm speaking here of conventional mode only. I was looking for add-on sound that sounded good, worked in conventional mode, and was affordable (that last one is because I have a bunch of locos to add sound to).

 

I use only 1033 xformers on my layout rite now. I don't own a ZW or LW postwar transformer, so I cannot comment on those. The bell is a more recent addition I think (relative to the PW era) and it works basically by reversing the whistle/horn diode. The 1033 and I assume the older models of the ZW or LW postwar transformers don't have that function. I modified my 1033 so that it can trigger the bell as well as the whistle. In a nutshell, if your ZW or LW postwar transformers don't specifically have the bell funtion, you cannot trigger the bell with them. Reversing your track wires would enable you to access the bell INSTEAD of the whistle, but I can't imagine anybody wanting to do this. This is probably true of all the add-on whistle/horn models you list above (somebody please correct me if that is wrong). You can of coarse purchase one of the seperate bell triggers that I have seen mentioned. I don't think they're very expensive, and you install them between the xformer and the track. With that you'd use your xformer to trigger the whistle/horn, and the add-on button to trigger the bell. Personally I find that I don't use the bell all that much anyway.

 

You mention a Marx slopeback tender. I did purchase one of these (on ebay) and discovered the speaker baffle from eRR was too wide (only by a smidge). You could do as I did with my 2026 tender, which was install the speaker without the baffle and instead sealed the tender really well so that the entire tender became the speaker baffle. That gave it a deeper, throatier sound, which I like. The baffle from eRR fits in the Lionel slopeback without any problems.

 

The eRR chuff function sounds really great I think. It does require the installation of a magnet and reed switch (included when you buy the steam version) on one of the trucks. If chuff is not important you just leave the installed jumber on the board. But this will also mute the other steam effects when the loco is idle. I think at least one of the other makers you listed drive thier chuff from track voltage instead. So you have that option.

 

I own one Williams diesel that has the Williams horn/bell. It has good sound, but it plays the same sound every time (three blasts) and no diesel growl when the train is running. I assume that's the same sound unit their selling seperately (may be wrong). But for $29.99, it's a nice sounding horn for the price.

 

One last thing on the SC. I also have a CW-80 xformer. eRR says the SC does not work with the CW-80. The chuff and whistle do work from the CW, but the bell funtion does not work.

Hope that helps some.

Bobby

[fhduncan]

 

All the previous solutions for a Whistle Replacement seem to be directed to O gauge operation. What about S gauge or AF (American Flyer) tender whistle replacement. Several problems occur with AC two rail S gauge operation.

First is the size constraint in the tender. Unfortunately, most Steam Engines have their e-unit in the tender. Thus part of the space is occupied.

Second is the width limitation the speaker and chip on board must fit into a 1 3/4 inch width. Speakers are not a problem some 8 ohm 0.2 watt speakers with 1 3/4 inch width exist. It is the size constraint and the appropriate whistle board electronics.

So the FINAL question is the following:

Does a combination AC/DC relay and sound board exist for AF tender operation?

 

I located some kits for sound. The problem is the whistle controller detection and activation part of the whistle control electronics. Please help me with your ideas. I hate to operate two beautiful engines with the old AF tinny whistle and bulky activation device. All your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.

[sir james I]

A polite correction,,The Williams whistle or horn boards are listed at $39.95. but some dealers may discount that. that is the catalog price. I have not received the flyer which may be lower but may also require a membership fee.

[phillyreading]

The last time I bought a Williams sound unit, True Blast 2, I paid the local independant Williams dealer only $20.00. That was about a year ago, before the Bachman takeover.  I put it in a GP-9 diesel.

Lee F.

[fhduncan]

I just called Williams/Bachmann about Trueblast. Guess what happened? They are out of stock and will not be have any replenishment untill July. Further, I don' know, if Trueblast will fit in an American Flyer tender. I think the board is too big. Does anyone have any ideas?

[sir james I]

From the catalog: speaker 2in rd. by 1 1/8 high, board-1 1/2-1 3/16-1 1/8

[fhduncan]

Sir James,

Do you own a True Blast unit? According to your message, the speaker is too wide. A minimum of 1 3/4 in speaker is necessary for tender clearance. What is the ohms and wattage on the speaker? Most speaker units I have seen for sound boards are 8 ohm and 0.2 watts including the old AF speaker. I apologize, but I can not read the board dimensions. Are they 1 1/2 in long x 13/16 wide x 1 1/8 high? Please correct my numbers. Is my height correct? All dimensions are critical. The height is the most important for clearance. Thank you for your information.

I have a general questions for everyone.

Where can one buy a True Blast Whistle (Williams is out of stock)?

Or does any one have one for sale?

Do some dealers still stock them?

Has anyone used True Blast with AF tenders?

Your valued input is appreciated.

duncanfh

[sir james I]

I took the size from the Wms. catalog. Speaker is 2 inch's round.rating not listed.

Board---L-1&1/2,,,,W-1&3/16,,,,H-1&1/8

[Anonymous]

pgtr,

an option no one has mentioned is Lionel's Trainsounds boxcars or tender. The boxcars comes in two flavors: steam or diesel, and the tender, of course, is steam only.

The steam whistle is excellent, impressive even, and the bell sounds ring crisp and clean (if your transformer provides a bell button). The coal tender version has the same "guts" as the steam sounds boxcar. There are both volume and on/off controls underneath the units. I can't speak for the diesel unit, as I've not heard one.

All are still available at some of the online retailers, typically at around $80.00. Recommended.

 

 

[fhduncan]

The biggest problem with newer electronic units in a Flyer tender is space. As stated in a previous message, most tenders have a e-unit in the tender. Some tenders even have a sound of steam and a smoke unit. The only alternative is a small board with a small speaker. At this point, only the Williams Trueblast II will work. Its dimensions are 1 1/2 in long x 1 3/16 wide x 1 7/8 high. I have a Williams FEC Berkshire with Trueblast II. I checked the size myself. Even with the under 2 inch dimensions, the fit will be tight.  Does any one know a Williams dealer with a Trueblast unit in Stock? I would like to purchase a Trueblast unit and try it in my 326 Hudson.

[phillyreading]

I have an older Williams sound unit that I can give you, just pay for postage, it has just the horn but the speaker is bigger than the new True Blast 2 by Williams. It came out of a Williams GP-9 unpowered diesel.

Most Williams dealers are out of stock because usually the horn is a demand item purchase, not a normally stocked item for most Williams dealers.

Lee F.

[lionelsoni]

Since the American Flyer whistle technique is simply to AC-couple a loudspeaker to the track voltage and to generate the whistle waveform at the transformer, it might be productive perhaps to upgrade the speaker in the tender but otherwise to concentrate on reproducing and injecting an improved whistle waveform into the track.