Copies of Premium items

[cheech]

I have noticed a lot of 'expensive' items on ebay. The PW lionel Canadian Pacific, Presidential Series and Congressional series cars.  There seems like a lot of them offered on a regular basis.  Is there a way of telling if these are the real-McCoy or are made up by buying the decals from parts suppliers?

curious before/if  i jump in

ralph

[marxalot]

You could do a little background checking on the seller; see what they usually deal in, check their feedback. Even with all the caveats on the feedback system on e-bay I have to think that if someone was selling non Lionel material or modified Lionel equipment as something else they would have received a pretty poor feedback response. You can always ask the seller too or ask for a photo showing manufactuer's name............and then take your chances eh?

Jim

 

[BlackJack]

Well I have one of the books that describes the sets released by Lionel in the fifties and sixties, and they comment how often rare, expensive sets (often forgeries) come up for sale. You know somethings not right when more common cheaper sets are available as often.

I think it is buyer beware. If you were an expert on repaints, or decaling or stamping methods, or other clues like frames or plastic bodies I guess, and boxes, I guess that would help you out. But I'd think you'd need to see the items first hand. Even those books state to consult an expert before buying "rare" sets due to all the forgeries.

Maybe a reliable seller, with lots of feedback that was a train specialist would be the best source. I'd hope that they'd be able to spot a forgery.

[brianel027]

One plus of the side of eBay is that it is now very easy to look in one place to find all sorts of trains. In the case of actual postwar Lionel items, one must consider as collectors (and operators) age and their health fails, many are now putting their trains up for sale. Even before eBay became as big as it now is, I started noticing more and more unusual postwar trains coming up for sale. At one sale I attended years ago, the owner had a large number of very very good condition postwar trains, most with orginal boxes and packaging. His prices were reasonable (though beyond my reach) as he needed to raise some fast money to pay for some hospital bills.

On the downside of eBay, wherever there's a chance to make an honest buck, there's someone who wants to make a fast dishonest one. It's harder to tell small details like heat or rubber stamping (common postwar techniques) by looking photos on eBay. I think you'll notice more bidding action on items that have high quality multiple photos with original packing materials - along with good buyer feedback.

I think there are some other general signs as to whether you want to buy trains from a particular seller:

1) The seller has no way of testing whether the trains work or not

2) Blurry and or dark photos where it is impossible to see any kind of detail or defects. An F-3 shell with the MPC-production inset is hardly a postwar item.

3) The seller can't accurately describe the trains or know when they were made: MPC era trains are not "extremely old Lionel trains."

4) Admits to having no clue as to what he/she is selling. Is selling the trains for someone else or a third party seller.

5) Over uses enticing words like "very rare" and "hard to find" when there are several other of the same train item for sale at the same time.

6) Wants immediate payment through Paypal only.

Of course, there are exceptions to everything. There are reputable sellers who accept Paypal only. In the case of any collectible, it really ends up being a case of buyer beware. As a buyer it is helpful to be knowledgable and to know the very same train item were made slightly differently during Lionel's differing periods. Symington or die-cast sprung trucks are obviously not postwar. A too perfect, too pristine paint job is probably not postwar either as the painting techniques then were just not as good decades ago. Mold details will not be as sharp either as most plastics back then did not take to sharp detail the way they do today. Nose and other decals are much more likely to be yellowed (at least to some degree) on a postwar piece than a modern item. Postwar locos have metal gears and not nylon. The list goes on.

If a seller can't answer some of these reasonable questions, then it's better to pass even if it does seem like a deal - unless getting a repro doesn't bother you.