buss wire question

[thatboy37]

was wondering with a buss wire you run that under the table beneath the track right then every 6, 8, or 10 feet you tap into the wire and connect the one wire from the track to it right? also you only need one ground wire per mainline right? i have 5 mainlines and all are hooked up to where i can run any train on any mainline without removing it from the track and placing it on there. how do i go about wiring all the mainlines together?

[chuck]

You will tie the commons together, but the hot/supply sides should be isolated from each other.  Each power supply needs to be "in phase" with the others since you are going to transit trains from one "block" or power district to the next.  You place insulated/isolation pins in the center rails to isolate each section.

Are you running in constatnt voltage/command mode, or in variable voltage conventiona?.  You can assign a single power supply to each of your mainlines/blocks/power districts.

[thatboy37]

i'm running all my engines in command mode. i was told that if i run all in command that i dont need to insolate the tracks being i can stop each individaul engine at any given point with the tmcc control. this is what i'm doing now i'm wirng the main outside loop all to one buss wire then i will come back and wire the next to the outside wire with a different color buss wire and so on with the remaining  loops. is this correct or is there another way of doing this. i figure since i have 5 mainlines that all connect to each other meaning that train 5 in the inside loop can be moved to track 1 via switches without removing from track. my question is do i need to run a different buss wire for each mainline with feeder wires

[csxt30]

Just to add a bit, I stripped a long piece of copper house wire down & ran it all around my layout for the common or ground wire, for TMCC. Also below is a very good site, from one of our own forum members, on phasing.

http://www.martye.com/TipsandTricks/TipsandTrick2.htm

Thanks, John

 

[dwiemer]

Reggie,

I have seen several folks suggest having power feeders every 3 to 4 feet.  I am not sure it is needed, but you may want to do it while you are there just to avoid power issues.

Dennis

[thatboy37]

now im lost. do i have to run the ground wire around also or do i have to just connect the wire in one spot on the track which is by the transformers near the control panel. or do i need a ground wire for all mainlines. this is what i have for power: 2- 80 watt transformers, 2 zw multiwatt transformers each come with 2 180 watt power supply houses item# 6-32930, and i have 2 extra power house supplies item# 6-22983, plus one mth z4000 which will be used to power all my accessories.  now that being said how do i hook up my 2 zw's plus the 6 power houses to the 5 mainlines to have it running properly. i know i will need the the 2 zw's but how many of the power houses will i need also to power the five mainlines or will i need all 6 power houses for the bottom 5 mainlines as i have 2 more levels to put up and i know i will need a power house for each of the 2 levels.

[chuck]

In command mode you don't have to worry about adjusting the volatge levels for each mainline but you do need to isolate the mains to ballance the power load.   The isolation pins tend to prevent current from flowwing in the wrong directions and causing other problems.

Think of the layout as a miniature power grid.  You don't want to try and slam all of the power you need trough a single wire from a single power source/transformer.  You feed each mainline off of one tap from a ZW and use the extra ones for yards or other areas.  To keep the electricity going where it's supposed to, you isolate the mains.  The voltages are the same in all the mainlines but the actual power being used comes from different supplies.   While you could feed everything thorugh one monster transformer, it would be carrying so many amps that any short circuit/derailment would act like a mini arc welder.  This is why you break the mainlines down into "power disricts".  Each district handles no more than 10 amps (180 watts).  Under command control, trains can move from block to block without any concern over power.  Control is handled by the on board electronics.  All you are doing with the power supplies is making sure there is enough electricity to run them.

You run heavy gauge bus wires under the layout to allow multiple feeds to the tracks just like a real electricc railway does.  ALL of the commons can be tied together but you would run a single "hot" bus for each main with multiple feeeders from these to the center rails.  At crossovers from one main to another, install an insulating pin to provide a boundary for that power district.

[ChiefEagles]

Remember, if you ever go to DCS, you may have to re-wire.  Does not like the buss wire system. 

[thatboy37]

thanks for telling me that. i going to stay all tmcc as i only have lionel tmcc engines which i hope they dont go to dcs if they dont i want have to worry about rewiring.

[cheech]

Chuck

That was an excellent explanation. very simple english.  If you get 5 minutes see my question under Layout Intersection.  i would greatly appreciate your view.

 

ralph

[Dave45681]

.....do i have to run the ground wire around also or do i have to just connect the wire in one spot on the track which is by the transformers near the control panel. or do i need a ground wire for all mainlines.......

I'm not sure anyone emphasized this part, but you should have the drops (however far apart you decide to make them) for BOTH the center rail hot and the outer rail's common.

Think of it like this, the electricity needs to go from the hot terminal of the transformer, through whatever wire/track to reach the roller of the engine, through all the engine motors/electronics, then back out the engine wheels to the track outer rail, finally back to the transformer common post via the wire.

If you only drop for the center rail, you are only helping the voltage drop for 1/2 of the path to the engine.  The current then needs to travel through all of the track back to the transformer if you put only one connection for the common.  The idea for both halves of the circuit is that the copper wire is a better conductor than the track with all the track joints, especially on a large layout such as yours.  By having the drops, you minimize the amount of track the current has to travel through to get to the engine, and  hopefully achieve a more uniform voltage level at all points of the layout.

Hope this helps.  Sounds like your layout is coming along really nicely.

[A&Y Ry]

Just as a footnote to Chuck's excellent explanation----you should not wire any two of your 180 watt PowerHouses to the same power district [track or oval] unless you have them linked and paralleled through a TPC 400. Even with the TPC linked to enable paralleling, with two 180 watt PoHos you would be providing 20 amps[360 watts] capacity for a single district or track which as Chuck suggests borders on welding territory upon a derailment. [only similar voltage level transformers such as PowerHouses should be paralleled and then only when linked to a TPC].

As noted above,seperate your five power districts from one another with a fiber pin or gap at the center rail where you crossover from one power district[or oval or "track"] to another. Then as also suggested, connect one 180 watt supply to each district -----whether from either or any five: [1] connect separately the units of your twin PoHo ZW, [2]by direct wiring of a PoHo to a district[in Command only] or [3]connection of each Z-4k's 180 watt throttle to a single, separate district. The disadvantage of direct wiring of a PoHo to a power district is inability,absent a TPC, to lower the command voltage from 18 volts to 15 or 16 volts if desired to lower power for passenger train lighting.

[if you wire a PoHo directly to a power district, do not attempt to run Conventional---your engine will receive the full, fixed 18 volts and take flight---run in Command only]