Closet 48" turnaround loop & 2% grade questions.

[Boyd]

I'm working on some changes to my little bedroom layout. One drawing I have has Lionel Fastrack going into the closet, looping on a 48" circle track and coming out back above the 4x8 plywood main part of the layout. It would need 3/4 of the 48" circle to come back out of the small doorway before the track  would have to curve the other way. I was planning on a 2% constant grade. I run modern scale cars with GP9s and a new Lionel 4-4-2. How long of trains would this limit me to climbing/descending this grade with 48" curves?

[chuck]

48" loop will only allow for a 3" vertical climb on a 2% grade.  The circumferance of the loop is pi (3.141) times Diameter (48").  This gives you a maximum run of approx 150 inches.  1% of 150 is 1.5 inches.  2% is 3 inches.   You said scale cars, what type and how long are each?  Also, have you checked for possible overhang issues?  Longer cars may navigate a 48" curve without derailing, but that doesn't mean they won't hit the walls or door frame while moving through the curve.

[lionelsoni]

Four percent is extremely steep for prototype railroads, but often done on layouts.  The biggest problem might be pulling the cars off the track, to the inside.  Since the loop is hidden, you might get away with a large negative superelevation, that is, tilting the track to the outside of the curve.

[trainmasterz]

I agree with Mr. Nelson.  I would like to add that when your running long consists the easiest thing to do is put your quality/heavy cars up front and your cheap/no ballast light cars (usually older lionel) from the 80's in the back.  That way they won't tend to pull off the track since they weigh hardly anything.  PS. Dont stick you'r lighted caboose at the end.

O, and Bob since as im feeling my way around here.  I am finding out that I have no clue! And that you are the electrical expert, well atleast some people have accused you of being it.  And I've read some of your posts.  When it comes to wiring correctly Ive just always done it by the seat of my pants.  Now Im just glad we never had a melt down.  I have a lot of reading and catching up to do.

They say that the key to knowledge is admitting that you know nothing.....hmmmm I guess i found the key.  Now what do I do?  Read I suppose.  This forum is great!  I've learned more in the past week than in the previous......... a long time.

[Boyd]

I said a 2% grade and not a 4% grade.
I already put together a 48" loop of Fastrack and fit it in the closet temporarily. Train cars/engines would clear the inside and outside of the track as long as I didn't buy and try to run a big 4-8-8-4 on it. There is enough distance between the main part of the layout and the closet, that if I ran a 2% constant grade, the tracks would climb 6 inches vertical by the time they get back above the main part of the layout. Most of my cars are 50-55? foot box cars (11"), PS-2 hoppers (14") and a couple of bulkhead flatcars (14.5").

[lionelsoni]

I brought up the 4-percent grade because of Chuck's analysis which assumed that you had to get the vertical clearance in the loop itself.  If, as you say, you have enough distance apart from the loop to get 6 inches with 2 percent, that's great.  I would still consider the negative superelevation, however, since it would be hidden.

[chuck]

You aren't trying to get the whole verticle clearance just off the curve in the closte.  Good.  2% grade should not pose a problem.  Watch out for near scale passenger cars (aka 18" units).  These are often rated at O-42/O-48 but will have large overhang issues.