questions on wiring

[thatboy37]

i was wondering where do you purchase the wire to connest to the switches on the fastrack. say instead of the switches being mounted beside the switch and over there by the zw's. it is a 3 strand wire that can be connected to the switch wire and the switch can be mounted by the zw's that way i dont have to run around the layout to try and hit the switch before the train gets there. i went to lowe's and they didnt have any. could please help me locate the wire.


thatboy37 aka reggie

[Anonymous]

You can get multi conductor 18 gauge stranded wire, in two, three and four conductor versions. This stuff is supposed to be Gragraves, but I don't see it on their web site:

http://www.trainsontracks.com/pgi-ProductSpec?GG-3cw-18-1

[lionelsoni]

Look for telephone "station wire" or thermostat cable. Lowes probably has these, just not with the building wire.

Radio shack has 4- and 6-conductor station wire and 4-conductor zip cord.

[thatboy37]

thanks for the info and yes lowe's did have the telephone wire but i didnt think it was as flemsy as the remote switch wire and was kind of scepticle bout buying it. also does that wire work good with the switches.

[dwiemer]

Reggie,
I have heard several folks using the telephone wire for fastrack switches, so it is accepted and tried. Also, you can count on the information from Bob Nelson, he knows a thing or two about wire and electronics.
Dennis

[Anonymous]

..Reggie....I see from the previous threads that you are going to build huge layout and I would advise you to plan ahead on wiring up your layout with the amount of switches that you are going to use. I would suggest you get advice from some of the old timers here on this fourm that have had a lot of experiance on a project that you are about to do.Working in the telephone field for many years I have seen a lot of rats nests{..Messy Wiring..} in my life time. I have worked with Ho equipment before but this is another ballgame you are getting into. Good luck....Felix

[thatboy37]

you know the guy who is designinb it for me is sending me an all out diaram f how to wire everything and i have all the books that everyone has recommended to me which has really been a great help to me. i been thinking of how im going to wire the layout. i was in lowe's last night past closingtrying to purchase wire harnesses and wire. i've seen the new fastrack book and the guy by the name of bill langsdorf has a massive layout and alot of wirng going on there once i got finished reading the book i said to myself that i really dont know what i've got myself into. but i'm ready as to i'm good with electronics and i wired a few car stereos in my day. plus i started thnking of all the stuff that i will need as far as wirng i'm know where near finished buying items for this layout. but this is a lifetime hobby that is not supposed to be finished in one day and thats the mind set i have which i have to get out of if i want a quality nice working layout that can and will attract many visitors over time. but thanks for the advice as i will take it all into consideration as i move along with my layout and if i have any quetions of how to do something you know i've been counting on you guys for help and i will continue to. until next time peace.

thatboy37 aka reggie

[otftch]

If you use Three strand thermostst wire from Lowes,(as mentioned above) it is solid conductor,18 Guage wire and will handle plenty of current with no power loss.I have used it for years and had no problems yet.I run the controller wire to a terminal strip and from there to the turnout.This makes wiring simpler and easy to test with a test lite in case of poblems.
Ed

[thankey]

If you can stand to wait a week or so, try these web suppliers:

http://www.stanorrtrainparts.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/catalog.html

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com//search_lionel.htm (Search on Wire or 3c)

http://www.scottsodds-n-ends.com/ (They have wire but I’d didn’t see 3 conductor)

http://www.georgetebolt.com/postlist.html

http://autolumination.com/wire.htm

http://www.trainexchange.com/ttpnew.htm

[thatboy37]

oh thanks for the replies i went to home depot on monday and they had 22 gauge 4 strand wire that came in 500 feet rolls for 70 dollars and i got one roll hoping that i want need any more but the way things are looking i will need one more roll, but who knows maybe i want need anymore. lets hope that i want. until next time peace.

thatboy37 aka reggie

[Anonymous]

Yeah, copper pricers are outragous right now.  That $70 roll  was probably alot less just a few weeks ago.  We took a big hit at work recently when the price of some copper coax more than doubled per piece in a few days.  Worse than gas!

 

[ChiefEagles]

Look for telephone "station wire" or thermostat cable. Lowes probably has these, just not with the building wire.

Radio shack has 4- and 6-conductor station wire and 4-conductor zip cord.

As usual, Bob knows his stuff about wiring.  Used telephone station wire and thremostat wire for years.  Never had a problem. 

[thatboy37]

the name of the wire is sound and security 22/4 strand do you think or know that this wire will work the same as the thermostat or telephone station wire. i hope so. until next time peace.

thatboy37 aka reggie

[ChiefEagles]

Should.  On my old layout, I had long runs of the thin telephone station wire and it worked great.  If you do run into problems, double it [two wires to each post, but to get three sets, you will have to pull another set].

[thatboy37]

i figure since the wire that i have i the same size as the wire on the switches it should be the same thing and work the same. also will i need the terminal switches if i purchase the tmcc ps2 switch and accessory controllers which run through and with the cab-1 controller. until next time peace.

thatboy37 aka reggie

[cheech]

Reggie

i have been following what you have been doing and it looks great!  You are about to enter into the hard part of construction - layout wiring. 

It can get out of hand real quick.  Several of the "guys" have been SOFTLY suggesting getting the layout wiring plan down pat before you begin.  Their advice is sound.  There's a lot here with all of the electronics and the HUGE investment you have.  I am working on a 30 x 20, all TMCC, in some cases 4 levels with 50 switches and turnouts, 60 accessories and counless lights. I don't know what i would have done without the forum advice - a large FIRE perhaps. 

Think of color coded wire and terminal strips. Cable runs are easier to find that way and the strips allow you to correct mistakes more easily.  Looking forward to see your progress.\\

god bless

ralph

[thatboy37]

i think our layout is about the same size maybe yours is alittle bigger than mine by like 20 square feet. so cheech you would not reccommend the tmcc SC-2 switch and accessory controller item # 6-22980 which receives signals from the cab-1 controller the throw and activate either 6 switches or 12 accessories. or like you said just go with the terminal switches that way the problem if any problem is easier to find. i have planty of terminal switches and a few of the SC-2 swithces but contiplating which one i want to use. i want it as easy as possible but also to look as neat and professional as possible. until next time peace.

thatboy37 aka reggie

[chuck]

You can run the SC-2 in parallel with standard throws, even having a throw near the switch and one at a central control panel. 

The usual problems with the SC-2 are signal pickup and powering.  I've never used the wall wart pack and have always used an auxiliary power feed and never had any trouble with Lionel O-22, DZ switch machines or FastTrack switches.  Only "issue" is to make sure the SC-2 is within receiving range of the TMCC signal.  SC-2 The receivers pick up signals from the tracks the way a loco would, aka the CAB-1 talks to the Command Base and the Command Base talks to everything else.  ASC controllers use a daisy chained serial wire to forward commands so placement is not an issue.  Either the SC-2's need to be placed near the command base's main antenna feed or near a piece of track to "hear" the commands.  Note, the TMCC signal does penetrate bellow the track unless you take steps to block it so an under the table mount might make sense.  If the SC-2's are farmed out around the layout, the wiring runs to the switches and accessories are shorter and may be easier to keep track of.  Good Luck!

[thatboy37]

so what you are saying is forget about the SC-2 switches as they might be a little harder to control and just stick with the terminal switches. and also what do i need to run all  of my accessories since i have kind of made up my mind not to use the SC-2 switch accessory controllers is there an alternative way to to control them without this part. until next time peace.

thatboy37 aka reggie

[chuck]

SC-2's are great.  I have four of them.  If you don't want to rely on RF signals, you can use the ASC (Accesory Switch Controller) devices.  These use a pair of wires to send commands to the controller.  More wiring, less problems with radio interference.  You can use both a remote switch controller and standard switch throws.  Remote control like the SC-2  allow for creation of "routes"  where a single command can throw/align multiple switches with a single button push.

[thatboy37]

1st do you have any pictures of your layout that you can share with me and the forum also what do you have hooked up to your SC-2's switches or accessories. now back to the other part. from the way you are explaining this to me it really sounds discouraging and makes me want to quit  and pay someone to do this for me. because i dont want a fire to start and get out of controll and poof there goes everything i've work for and on in the blink of an eye. i'm gone take my time and read my tmcc command control book to get a better understanding of what these items do and can do to make this wiring thing go as smoothly as possible. but believe me i will be asking a million questions on this forum starting from when i actually started in this forum until i get my layout up and running the way i want it to run. so please be patient and as helpful as you can with me as i go on this journey of toy trains and how to get it running. if i knew what i knew now that it takes basically an electrition to be be able to put together and run a train layout i might have pick another hobby even though i have a huge love for toy trains since the tender age of 4 or 5. now that i'm 26 i think i need a masters to be in this hobby but i guess its just the way things are being that you want to have your trains up and running the same day you buy them but in actualality you have to be patient and eventually things will come together and work just fine. but until next time peace.

thatboy37 aka reggie

[chuck]

You'd have to work hard to get a wiring problem to cause a fire.  Most of these hookups will be for control purposes only.  Even though TMCC/DCS/DCC make remote control possible, you still have to do the basic wiring to get this to work (and there are a lot of wires). 

Check the local public library for a series of books done by Peter Riddle called "Wiring Your Lionel Layout", particularly Volumes 1 and 2.  These do a good job of explaining what is going on and how/why stuff is wired up the way it is.  Take baby steps.  Try hooking up one switch and maybe one accessory and then proceed from there.

[thatboy37]

help im lost for words here or should i just say im lost in all. i think im gone have to ask the guys at the hobby shop to see if they can make a visit to my house just to help me get started with the whole process of getting the wirng down. i thought this was something that i could do by myself but being that im new to the building a huge layout its going to take alot of messing up before i get it right and i really want to get it right the first time so i can at least get one train up and running. help anyone please help. until next time peace. oh yeah chuck if you have any pictures of how you have your layout that would be helpful in getting me pointed in the right direction.

thatboy37 aka reggie

[chuck]

Sorry Reggie, no photo's, layout(s) are temp set ups on the deck in the back yard or the floor for christmas.  I have color coded wires and quick connects for easy set up and tear down.  Power supply and TMCC components are on a 1x12 that's about two feet long.  There is a chance that the FastTrack switches will soon have a receiver module that may make wiring a bit easier.  Check out the local library for those two reference books.   Very well illustrated and well writen.

[luther_stanton]

I am still rather new to the hobby and on my first layout – but here are a few lessons I learned – much from this forum.  My layout is a little smaller than yours - 10 x 10 with 6 or so accessories, 12 switches and four track power blocks - but hopefully you can see some similarities.

 

I have two SC-2 installed – I put them in shelves hanging from my framework.  I am running Atlas Super-O switches with them.  I am also using the three conductor solid copper wire others have posted about with no problems what so ever.  I run four switches and two accessories off of each SC-2.

 

[Shelf with TMCC command base and SC2]

 

[The other SC-2]

 

You should definitely have a wiring plan before you start.  I took a print out of my track plan and penciled in all my accessories.  I also sat down with all my accessory manuals to determine what voltages I needed.  I ended up running three busses, 10V, 12V and 16V.  These are all accessory busses and of course I have the main track power running off of POHOs and TPCs.

 

I decided on 10V and 12V runs as I wanted to run as the accessories with the least voltage possible.  So I run items like the fueling station and ice house at 10V, all lighting at 12V and all the switch machines and SC2 at 16V.  Everything is working really well for me thus far.

 

Something else I would suggest is to add fuses and circuit breakers on EVERYTHING.  I use Scott's Odds-n-Ends circuit breakers.  They are indispensable! 

 

[This is my "power center" with the TPC / POHO on the bottom shelf .  The middle shelf has a CW80 which I use for the 10V / 12V bus and an Accessory Transformer set to 16V.  Everything on the middle shelf is fused!]

 

[Circuit breakers for the main track power busses]

 

A few other suggestions:

 

* Color code and label your wires.  I went to Staples and bought a small label maker and label each end of the wires so I know what is going where.

 

[These are the wire runs into the control panel.  The yellow ones on the left are the power buses going to rocker switches, the strip on the right are tied to common.]

 

* Always cut a little longer than you need.  You never know when you need to move something around!

 

*  Neatness counts – I use little wire loops held in with a screw to “guide” the wires.

 

[It can get pretty complicated - labels, colors and wire guides help out]

 

[I used a lot of terminal strips and labels!]

 

[The run here has a TMCC cable, two switch wires, three power busses and a few local accessory wires.]

 

* Personally, I never crimp – I always solder.  It is a lot more work, but a solder joint is much better than a simple mechanical crimp.  I know of others who are successful with crimps so your mileage may vary J.

 

While it can be challenging, I find the electrical to be one of the most rewarding parts of building a layout.  Take your time, plan your moves and be careful!  Good luck.....

 

- Luther

[thatboy37]

well if you can help me at all i will be in contact with you throughout my building process and hopefully you will be there to assist me in this venture as you have thus far. i will try to contact bob nelson who you refered in an earlier message to get his help as needed and i will go and get those 2 books. do you know whether or not they sale them at barnes and noble or any major book store as it will be better to own them as the library you have to return them in a few days. my track plan is on the way and i should have it in a few days. my first step is to just get the track layed but not screwed down and then wire as needed from point to point. i figure to get the track running  and wired right then screw down in place. i guess thats the right step or im moving in the right direction i assume as i can make adjustments before it becomes permanent. i started putting my two atlas round houses together and i put the turn table together as far as i could because i dont have the plan to see exactly where it goes to permanently screw it down but at least i got started and i will have a few pictures tomorrow. well here are a few of them now.

and

until next time peace.

thatboy37 aka reggie

[chuck]

"do you know whether or not they sale them at barnes and noble or any major book store as it will be better to own them as the library you have to return them in a few days"

Volume 2 is still available from Amazon.  Volume 1 may be harder to find.  If they have the books at the library and they are useful, then you can wory about finding your own copies.  There is now a fourth and newer publication but I haven't see it's contents:

"Wiring your Toy Train Layout"

Same author, aka Peter Riddle.  I have a number of his publications and found them all to be usefull and well written/illustrated.

Next time you are in Home Depot/Lowes, check out the sections where you'll find cable ties and such.  There are smaller "C" and "U" type clips to support light weight cable runs.  You can also find cable ties with label posts on them.

[trainmasterz]

Reggie,

You have a great project!  I'm looking foreward to seeing it come together.  I've been reading your posts, and all I have to say is dont get discouraged.  From the sounds of it, you have a lot of money invested.  I see you have the space!  And time is on your side.

As far as the complexity of the wiring, dont feel overwhelmed.  Just take it one step at a time.  Layout the track like you are planning (you cant run wires untill you know were they are going).  Definatly do like Luther said with the color coding, labeling, extra length on your wires, wire ties, and terminals.  The LAST THING you would want is to slide under that platform and have a mess! "neatness counts"  By the way, what are you planning on using to get around under there?  Since your platform is about 36" off the floor, I will suggest a bench with wheels or maybe some sort of jacked up creeper or some other home made number.  Ive spent more time lying on my back than a .  Your gonna be in the same boat.  I will add that I posted a question yesterday about wiring the track.  Since your layout is going to be classified in the "larger than most home layouts" category, I am assuming that you will run a "main bus" line around under the track, right?  As far as soldering the joints of each track?  I still am out to lunch on that one.  I solder a feeder line from the main line to each 37" track segment. 

That brings me back to my question i had for you.  What type of track are you going to use?

[thatboy37]

fastrack being that it is easy to hook up and disassemble plus its the new thing that lionel is proud of so i wanted to give it a try and see what all the hype is about. and looking at the pictures (i cant remember his name) posted with all the wiring and my layout is bigger than his you cant help but think am i ready for this venture. all im looking for is a little encouragement and i will be on my way. until next time peace.

thatboy37 aka reggie