Insulating Pins?

[Demon09]

Hey all,

I went to my local hobby shop to get some, and they were out. So while I'm waiting for them to restock, I figured I would ask some questions to figure out exactly how I am going to use them....

First off, I needed them for some old 1122 switches I have. I also wanted to use them to isolate an interior figure 8 from an outer mainline so that my younger brother could control one loop while I used the other.

Is there a specific way that I need to isolate these blocks? They are connected with a manual 0-27 switch in one spot. Do I need the transformers in phase if I am going to run a train between the loops? Will the loops be able to run completely independent of one another if I unsulate all 3 rails, or should I phase them in order to move from one track to the other through the switches? How do I get an MTH z-1000 in phase with a lionel cw-80?


Thanks to everyone, as usual you are always a great help.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: ? How do I get an MTH z-1000 in phase with a lionel cw-80?

Get another Z !
I tried and the best I could do was isolate all three rails and watch the sparks fly when a train crossed over. Then I built a "buffer" track section a little longer than than my longest train. Connected it to both transformers with a toggle switch and before a train entered it the power to the buffer section would be switched to the power from the incoming trains transformer and when the entire train was in the "buffer" I would flip the switch to get power from the transformer it was entering. It worked but what a pain in the butt.
You should really try to get matching transformers.

[phillyreading]

Best is to use a two or four train transformer so that you have a common nuetral built-in.
Mainly the center rails need to be insulated to provide separate power. The rails at the switches will need to be insulated too if they are automatic switching type, don't know about the 1122 switches.
Lee

[lionelsoni]

How often has this come up?

Isolating all the rails is not necessary; but it is not harmful.

Running trains between blocks powered by different transformers or by different outputs from the same transformer is a bad idea and can be downright dangerous. Unless the voltages on the two blocks are exactly the same, a fault current will flow when the pickups connect the blocks together. Different voltages, different phases, and different waveforms will all cause trouble. With many transformers fault currents between multiple output terminals are not detected by the circuit breaker. This can result in a fire if a train stalls across the gap. If you use one of these transformers, you should add individual circuit breakers or fuses to the outputs.

A better way is to switch the blocks between or among transformers. That way you can keep a train on the same transformer as it moves anywhere on the layout. To do this, first do connect the outside rails together and to the common terminals of all the transformers. Then get a single-pole switch for each block and connect the switch's common to the center rail of the block. Then connect each other terminal to the variable terminal of one of the transformers. The switch then selects which transformer is to power that block.

The trouble with having three transformers is that the simplest switch, a single-pole-double-throw (SPDT), will only accommodate two transformers. However, you can use two of these per block to handle three. The center-off switches are best for this, because you can shut off a block entirely. With an SPDT and a DPDT per block, you can reach four transformers. With an SPDT and two 3PDTs (harder to find), you can do eight.

However, you may find that, with the switches, you don't need three transformers, if you don't run three trains at a time. You may also decide that it is useful to subdivide your loops into smaller blocks, so that two trains on different parts of one loop can be controlled separately, as when swapping trains between loops. This doesn't require any more transformers, of course, just more switches.

[Demon09]

I am still a bit of a novice with the wriring aspects, so I am going to confess that I don't understand half of your advice, Bob. I understand basic wiring, as simple as it is with positive and negative and the importance of not overloading a transformer..... but that is about the extent to that

By outside rails, do you literally mean just the left and right rails of any given piece of track, or somehow the outside rails of the separated blocks? And between the z-1000 and the cw-80, what would the "common terminal" be? Using the single-pole switch would allow the transformers to work together as long as the switch shuts one off in favor of the other? Will this matter if the engine is dual motor?

Would I be better off just waiting and picking up a wiring book and learning this all from the ground up? Your advice is very helpful, and I'm sure it's exactly what I need to do, but I don't want to assume I understand something and ruin a train... I am the only one in my family who has any real interest in the hobby so I never had the guidance of an expert to learn this all before. I just don't want anyone to feel they are wasting a lot of time explaining anything in detail or that it is a waste of advice if I can't understand it all. Haha.

Thanks again!

[lionelsoni]

"By outside rails, do you literally mean just the left and right rails of any given piece of track, or somehow the outside rails of the separated blocks?" Literally the left and right rails of every piece of track (except the control rails of the turnout), should all be connected together and to the commons of all the transformers involved. Although this electrical node is not literally connected to the earth, it is often referred to as "ground".

"And between the z-1000 and the cw-80, what would the "common terminal" be?" This is a problem with modern "transformers", particularly the CW-80, which seems to have been designed backwards. In Lionel postwar transformers, the common is usually marked "U" for multiple-control transformers and anything but "U" for single-control transformers. Those more familiar with the modern ones may be able to advise you here.

"Using the single-pole switch would allow the transformers to work together as long as the switch shuts one off in favor of the other?" Each piece of track ("block") controlled by an SPDT switch will be powered by only one of the transformer outputs at a time. But some blocks can be controlled by one and some by another at the same time.

"Will this matter if the engine is dual motor?" No.

By the way, use wire that is heavy enough to carry the greatest current that your transformers can put out. 12 or 14 AWG should be big enough for anything you are likely to have.

[Anonymous]

Bob makes a good point regarding crossing a rail gap or insulated pin into one power district from another without equalizing the voltage between the two districts[or "blocks"].

However many ogaugers have been doing so in Conventional operation for years by equalizing the voltage via readings on inexpensive panel voltmeters wired accross the line on the power source for each district.

In Command Control operation, crossing the gap is not a problem since the voltage is the same in each district.
Also, Lionel has Block Power Controllers that one can wire to enable temporarily transferring control of both power districts to only one of the two transformers [and the same voltage] via the handheld remote while the engine/train is crossing.