O27 and S Gauge

[Anonymous]

Hello, all. I'm new to the Forum. I'm sure you've heard every gauge question imaginable, but here goes...

I've got some space in my attic for a fair-sized layout. But with walls pitched at 45 degrees and the need to do an around-the-walls layout, space is a little tight. But every time I consider HO, get a feeling like I know that's not where my heart is.

I've got a bunch of o27 stuff from 20 years ago. With a little TLC, it should be up to snuff. In addition, I'm very impressed with some of my brother's new o-scale, but I don't think I could bring myself to plunk down the cash. So I'm thinking just settle on o27, though it is not to scale, and buy o-scale in the future.

But I'm wondering about the viability of running o27 on S-gauge trucks and track. Also, what are your opinions about S gauge in general? is it scale? Would it be scale or near scale to run o27 on S track?

Thanks for any advice you can give.

[Dave Farquhar]

Yes, S gauge is dead on 1:64 scale. Modern production S gauge from American Models and S-Helper is very much so. American Flyer (and Lionel repros) has less detail, but it holds up to the scale ruler.

Most O27 is pretty close to 1:64. So it's fairly common for S gaugers to re-truck O27 stuff. It's a matter of personal preference. Some of the cars end up a little big and that bothers some people; others are just glad to get more cars on the cheap.

I've also done the reverse, buying beat-up Flyer bodies and putting O gauge trucks on them to make them O27.

The downside is that S will take up more space than O27. With the exception of Flyer's infamous Pikemaster track, which was about 30 inches in diameter, standard minimum diameter for S gauge track is 40 inches, so it takes more space than O27 (27 inches) or even O31 (31 inches).

[Anonymous]

Quick question Dave what ever happened to Pikemaster track? I would have gone to s guage if it wasn't for their large radius track. Felix

[lionelsoni]

O27-profile track comes in a wide variety of diameters: O72, O54, O42, O34, and of course O27. You can use the gentler curves where you have room and resort to O27 in the tight places. One of my favorites is the O42-O27-O42 spiral curve, which takes up little more room than O27-O27 but looks like O42. Or O54-O34-O54, where you have a bit more space, looks like O54. Spirals also let you get the tangents closer to the wall.

I would say that O27 is about halfway between 1/48 and 1/64, perhaps 1/55 on average. You can run a surprising amount of 1/48 stock on O27, sometimes with a little modification, and especially if you look for items with short prototypes, like F3s, or those that have been selectively compressed in length, like the Lionel GG1s.

[phillyreading]

Not sure but I don't think that Pike Master track had a big following. It was plastic ties underneath that broke off easily and needs special track pins, unlike the regular S gauge track. Far as S gauge track GarGraves makes a 42.5 inch radius curve they call 42 inch, K-Line used to make 54 inch S gauge curves. There may be other size S gauge track but I don't know of any.
Lee Fritz

[IRONROOSTER]

[#welcome]

For S scale this site http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/sscale.html is the most comprehensive on the web. There are several track manufacturers shown there with links. Minimum radius track for S is 19" or 38" diameter.

O27 is closer in size to 1/55, but it is not scaled down the same in all 3 dimensions. Biggest visual problem is that O27 is a little too wide - some S scalers used to cut out the center section of O27 cars to get a better width. Biggest mechanical problem is that the wider cars may not get past the switch machines on all brands of track. BTW I have seen On30 passenger cars retrucked for S - looked pretty good.

S gauge has under gone a major revival in the last two decades. While it doesn't rival O gauge, it does have quite a bit as the above site will show you. The two major manufacturers are American Models and S Helper - http://www.americanmodels.com/
http://www.showcaseline.com/ Almost everything made for S is to scale (the only exceptions are a couple of small manufacturers who have adapted some products from other scales to S). There have also been some of the old Amercian Flyer accessories reproduced.

You can certainly use O27 cars. Whether or not these look good next to S gauge cars is up to you.

Enjoy
Paul

[alton6]

The American Flyer 2 bay hoppers (Wabash 940, etc.) look neat on O gauge trucks. Didn't these little cars used to be called " ore jennies"?

Carl

[alton6]

Here's another recent thread on this topic:

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=64181&REPLY_ID=723941#723941

[waltrapp]

Bob,

Quick question about your reply:

Did you really mean O42-O27-O42 to make a curve?? Given that it takes 3 O42 pieces to make a 90 degree, it would seem that that combinat ion would not come out to 90 degrees, would it?? I use O54-O27-O54 to make a 90 degree curve.

- walt

[Anonymous]

Thanks to everyone for the responses and links; it really gives me a perspective. My wife actually has an old Marx set so I can see the difference between something close to 1:64 vs. o27. I'll have to consider the question of the width of the cars. I'm not inclined to cut out the center or anything like that -- too ambitious for me. I've got to say I'm intrigued by S gauge. If I were to start from scratch, I might just explore that. As for the o27, I'll just have to think of it as a fun train and not try for perfect scale.

[lionelsoni]

You're right, Doug. I misremembered the numbers. They are O54-O27-O54, as you say, and O72-O34-O72. There are some not very clear shots of them in Dave Vergun's recent "blogg". The curves on the elevated track are the former and one of the latter is in the background of a picture of my yard throat.

[Dave Farquhar]

Lee is right about Pikemaster track. The other problem was the larger AF engines (basically anything bigger than a 4-4-2) had difficulty running on it. So it was basically good for starter sets, but people who wanted larger layouts hated it.

The others noted the other thing about O27. The scale isn't terribly consistent. A 6464 boxcar isn't anywhere near 1:64, but the earlier Lionel boxcars (such as the Baby Ruth cars) and the Marx plastic cars of the same period are close, just slightly oversize. The Lionel gondolas are very close--hold that up next to an AF gondola and they're very nearly the same size. I should amend what I said--O27 candidates for conversion need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

All that said, even though O27 doesn't hold up well to a scale ruler, it's fun, and to most eyes it still looks like a real train. If you're careful how you group things together you can still make things that look believable with it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dave Farquhar

All that said, even though O27 doesn't hold up well to a scale ruler, it's fun, and to most eyes it still looks like a real train. If you're careful how you group things together you can still make things that look believable with it.

Yeah, I never though O27 looked bad instrinsically. It's just "knowing" that's not to scale. But my 2-year old will have a blast anyway.

[woodsmanmark]

Who make O27 profile track in O34 Diameter? I'm just getting back into this with my 8yr old son after he dicovered my old Lionel set in the attic. that diameter would be a great help in the layoutI'm trying to squeeze in a fairly tight space.

Thanks

****************

Mark

[lionelsoni]

Marx.

[palallin]

Marx O34 is great stuff. The system includes longer straights that maintain the geometry of the O27 track plans. Manual and electric switches are available as are dedicated crossings and uncoupling ramps.