DCS Frustration

[Anonymous]

I'll try to keep this a succinct as possible but it will be difficult to describe my situation without being a bit wordy. My thanks and appreciation to anyone who can pass a suggestion or two my way...
I have a large layout that I'm trying to convert to DCS. I knew ahead of time that I had some prep work to do. Converted to "home run" wiring with 14 guage stranded wire. Installed the "light trick" between TIU and the terminal block. Removed the black from center rail (that was fun). The end game is that I'm getting signal strength on my largest loop of 2 to 4 (sometimes zero: "Engine Not on Track"). Decided to attack problem like I would with voltage drop issue (ie, check for signal at interim points from TIU to track). I did this by soldering leads to a 3 ft section of lionel track. I can now place the loco on the test track and connect to just about anywhere. Found that even connecting at the "light trick" before my terminal block I was getting bad signal. When I started to disconnect the track leads from the terminal block the signal goes up. (Yep - all the way up to 10 if there is no track connected.) OK - beginning to understand a bit better - the signal is being dissipated more than "lost". The loop is about 60-70ft in total - with three power divisions each with 2 leads from the track - so a loco is always 6 or 7 feet from a power source. I identified the worst offending power division and found a track signal of about 3 to 5 if that section is only one connected. Again - the train is connected directly to the light so dirty track is not issue. I have a 20 ft section of track that when connected sucks up 75% of the DCS signal.
Please ask me any questions if that would help. I've been struggling for about 3 weeks and am tempted to yank it all and put the DCS components up on ebay - should get a good price given the ongoing delays in shipping!!

Thanks a ton to anyone who made it through my rambling...
Allan

[Anonymous]

Allan

I do not run DCS myself but I do understand there is a problem with signal strenth on large layouts. Not to push another Forum but I would try the OGR Forum with your question. There is a seperate section there and some very smart people who have figured out how to solve problems with DCS.

Dale Hz

[spankybird]

Ok Allan,

I need to ask some basic question so we can help you. BTW my layou has loops of about 70 to 80 feet of track.

1. What type of transformer are you using [?]

2. What type of track are you using [?]

3. Do you have any blocks with on/off switches in the line [?]

tom

[Anonymous]

Tom - Thanks for the questions:
> The transformer is modern ZW (180 Watt Brick dedicated to that loop
> Gargraves Track (traditional flex track with black top removed)
> Plans for on/off switches but not installed yet. I have 3 separate blocks with center rail isolated - but all wired directly to same terminal strip (I'm using Radio Shack terminal strips - not the MTH $15 version - assume no issue there)

-Allan

[spankybird]

Allan,

Are you just using the brick without the ZW contoller [?] Or are you also using the ZW contoller.

Are use using only one channel of the TIU and if so which one [?]

[Anonymous]

Tom -
I'm using the ZW controller with the brick.

For now, I'm using only one channel for this loop on the TIU - the first fixed channel. (I am using alternate power source for the TIU not relying on the track power.) The other channels are being used for other loops - but during the diagnostics they are all disconnected...

Thanks
Allan

[spankybird]

Do you have the Controller part of ZW at full voltage [?]

Have you tried connecting the brick up to the TIU directly [?] or a different transformer (one that is a pure sin wave) [?]

[waltrapp]

Allan,

DISCLAIMER: I own and operate DCS and read EVERYTHING I can get my hands on regarding it. But I am far from being considered one of the experts. I know many of the golden rules though.

In terms of your situation, it's been recommended that all connection points from the central terminal block be electrically independent blocks from each other. The idea is that you don't want an engine receiving the DCS signal from 2 different sources or directions.

One of my 3 mainlines this past Christmas was 145' long and I got all 10s, so your length is not the issue. I used 8 lockons. I had each of those 8 sections of track separated from the others with a dummy pin in the center rail. You can leave the ground rails connected, as the theory goes.

You might want to consider trying this if you haven't already.

Keep us informed as to your progress, OK?

- walt

[Anonymous]

Tom / Walt - thanks for continued help. I'm going to answer both in this one reply..

Tom: I do have voltage on full from my ZW controller. Have not tried another transformer or connecting directly to brick. How do you connect directly to brick?

Walt: I have essentially tried isolating all power points. All my power feeds are terminated with spade terminals - very easy to connect / disconnect. For testing purposes I have disconnect all feeds but one (on a 20 ft section). Signal is better (4/5) rather than 3 but not great..

One other thought. My wire is 14 guage stranded - but I've used 14/4 rather than 14/2. Cheaper and easier for a double main line. Have a friend who knows nothing about trains/DCS but does know electricity/electronics and he mentioned this may cause interference. Don't think this should cause a problem (especially since I'm only testing one line at at time) but thought I'd mention it...

-Allan

[Anonymous]

Walt / Tom - thanks again for help.

Walt - you may not be an expert but you were right on the money! My last response indicated that I had already isolated each power source. Well - I fixed one problem and created another. Yes, by disconnecting some power leads I created 3 isolated blocks with 1 feed each. But in doing so I also created 25 foot runs with only one feed. These were not centered so I had some places where track was almost 20 feet from the nearest feed - not good. Well, I took your orginal advice and create 6 isolated blocks - fixed me right up. Signal strength of 9's and 10's except in places where there are multiple turnouts between the loco and the power feed (drops to 7/8 for a short time). I can live with that.

Thanks a ton.

Allan

[spankybird]

Allan,

Glad to hear that all is well, [tup] [:D]

tom

[CSX FAN]

Allen your right in my back yard some where I can talk you throught DCS. I'm near Rt 50 and Rt28. I wrote a couple of articals on DCS. Should be able to help ou right up.

Jamie