Plastic or die-cast trucks and couplers?

[Birds]

Weaver models offers cars with either plastic or die-cast couplers and trucks. I only have experience with plastic couplers and trucks.

What is the advantage of one over the other when working with rolling stock?

Thanks,
Birds

[dougdagrump]

Die cast will give added weight which can help reduce the risk of derailing on turns and turnouts.

[Dr. John]

In addition to what Doug said, the diecast versions tend to be more durable.

[andregg1]

is true but, some times don't match with postwar couples, means the postwar couple dosen't close weaver couple with the first touch, sometimes I need more power for couple a pair.
Andre.

[brianel027]

I don't mind the plastic trucks at all, though I prefer either the postwar Timken version or the newer Lionel AAR version over the previous MPC Symington version - which K-Line also used.

The key factor with plastic trucks and derailments is NOT weight... it is the mounting of the truck to the body. The rivets used to hold these trucks to the car bodies allow the truck to be quite loose and subsequently has a lot of wobble. It is this factor (along with the opening space and knuckle size) that causes derailments.

I have remounted the plastic trucks on every single car I own without exception... and I can back up a train though "S" shaped curves with my 9-inch short cars pushing a long train of much heavier cars with ZERO derailments. Believe me, it is NOT weight. The truck mounting has everything to do with this. I even tighten up the mounting with some cars that come with die cast trucks also.

Unlike a real train, where the coupler is mounted to the train car body, our toy trains have the couplers mounted to the truck. So when you are pusing a train backwards, all of the pressure is on the couplers directly. If the trucks are loosely mounted to the car body, they are going to be pushed upwards when going through a curve, thus causing a derailment. You want the trucks mounted to the body tight enough to allow the truck to swivel easily, yet not wobble. Again, I pushed a 20 car train backward, with 18 heavier cars with die cast trucks being pushed by 2 MPC era cars with my remounted trucks.... NO derailments. So weight is really not the determining factor.

The Industrial Rail cars often derail and they are very nice heavy die cast trucks, which by definition should not derail yet they do. The reason for this is the opening space inside the closed coupler is too small for many other kinds of couplers, thus causing the cars to bind when going through curves, thus causing a derailment. The trick here is to use a Dremel tool with a grinding bit and to open up the space in the coupler. Again, having done this I have also eliminated derailments here too.

[Birds]

Thank you all for the thoughts and suggestions.

Birds

[lionelsoni]

Brianel, I was puzzled by your comment about the couplers, "If the trucks are loosely mounted to the car body, they are going to be pushed upwards when going through a curve, thus causing a derailment." It seemed to me that in shoving the moment on the truck, the body pushing out at the center bearing and the coupler pushing in, was in the direction that would lower, not raise, the coupler. So I did a little experiment last night.

I got a 7-inch sharpened pencil. I held it level by the tip and put the eraser on the coupler knuckle, then pushed the car from the other end. In every case the coupler went down, not up, except for a couple of K-Line cars whose couplers didn't move at all. On inspection, I saw that their center bearings were lower than the others, at the level of the coupler.

I'm not disputing that vertical coupler motion occurs, just that, if it happens, it is downward, not upward.

[brianel027]

Okay Bob cool. Maybe I'm not being clear.

What I have seen happen with trucks with loose rivet mounts is that when the train is going through an "s" curve, it is usually the inside wheel set that will jump up off the track. So I guess your observation that the coupler is being pushed down would make sense in that then the wheel set furthest away from the coupler goes up off the track.

I do know that after some time of having repeated derailments, when I started the project of remounting all trucks the derailments started going away. When I do have them, I know now it is either the coupler opening space (causing a binding effect with the car it is coupled to) or wheel gauge.

As I have mentioned before, I have seen some real inconsistency with the wheel gauge of especially Korean part fast angle wheel sets.... I'd get a bulk bag of replacements and you could see how differing the gauge was... it was unbelievable. Fast angle wheels have quite a bit of play to begin with, but I have found it is important to have the wheel sets on the same truck being in line with each other.

[Jumijo]

I have a set of Industrial Rail hoppers that derailed so often, I seriously thought of throwing them in the trash. Then Brianel027 suggested opening up the couplers with a dremel. I did, and those hoppers do not misbehave any longer. Brian knows what he's talking about. I wish I could find more IR cars for the low price I bought those hoppers for. Now, when I see IR cars for sale at shows, they are pricey.

Thanks for the tip, Brian!

Jim

[Jumijo]

And another thing . . . I prefer plastic couplers to die cast. They seem to close easier and with a lot less required force.

Jim

[pbjwilson]

Very difficult to push a car with plastic trucks through a switch. If you're into switching and spotting cars on sidings plastic trucks can be troublesome. They are so light weight that they tend to derail in that situation. Forward running in a consist I've had no trouble until the racecar driver in me takes over. Sssspppppeeding around O31 curves the weight of die-cast trucks help out.

[Dreamer]

The discussion on this topic has been most helpful.  Does anyone have a solution for Lionel plastic couplers that don't remain open after an uncoupling?  They have to be coupled manually.  About 1/4 of my Lionel couplers (including the front one on my C & O GP38 Diesel) have this problem while the rest "spring open" after an uncoupling so that they are ready to couple up when another car is shunted into them.  I suspect they have faulty springs but I can't see any spring. 

[brianel027]

Dreamer, there is no spring. The "spring" is actually a thin extension of the knuckle that when bent acts as a spring. These can wear out in time. The K-Line plastic trucks used a thicker extension than does Lionel and the K-Line ones tend to break. You can replace the K-Line plastic knuckle with a Lionel one and the couplers will work better, but you have to also use the Lionel knuckle rivet as the K-Line one is larger. It is well worth the money to buy a bulk bag of 25 Lionel plastic knuckles from a parts dealer like the Train Tender.

Paul, as I stated above, it is not the weight of the plastic trucks but the way they are attached to the car frame. I drill out the metal rivet and remount every single truck I own with a truss screw and a lock nut. I operate as you do with a lot of switching, pusjing and pulling with light plastic cars pushing much heavier cars with die cast trucks and NEVER have derailments. NEVER. It really is not the weight of the trucks, but the way they attach to the cars. Otherwise I would have derailments galore because I put short 8 inch cars at the lead of a heavy train, go backwards through "S" curves off switches - all with 027 curves - and everything stays on the track. My method really works - guaranteed.

[ChiefEagles]

Weight will cure the problem of derailments due to the plastic trucks.  Is a quick fix but not a true fix like Brian is saying.  I have been that the "plastic spring" can be reshaped by opening the couplers and emersing in very hot water.  Have not tried it. 

[3railguy]

One trick I've seen with plastic trucks is to wind plumbing solder around the axles. This adds weight where you want it. A heavier truck keeps the center of gravity lower. A lower center of gravity allows cars to take curves faster.

Weights added to the car only helps get it through switches or prevents the car being tugged off the rails in the middle of a long train.

It doesn't hurt to add weights to the cars as well as weight the axles either. The more weight you can get at axel level, the better.

I like to shoot plastic trucks with floquil engine black or flat black model paint.