Could Lionel switch to 2 rail?

[Boyd]

With all the new technology in the newer engines and a few changes. How hard would it be for Lionel to start to transition to 2 rail track? Start making all cars and engines with axles that are insulated in the middle. Make center pickups that can be put in the "UP" position when run on 2 rail. I sure would love a track that looks like the center rail is nearly invisible. I've seen Super O and heard of it wearing out roller pickups. I even came up with an idea of a clear plastic center rail with a thin metal strip on the very top of the rail. Ideas?

[Big_Boy_4005]

Boyd, a 2 rail electrical system is totally different, and in a number of ways potentially more complex. MTH has tried the "convertable" locomotive, but I'm not sure how well it sold. The real problem isn't locomotives, it's cars. All the wheel sets would have to be changed to insulated for 2 rail operation. The insulation would not be in the middle of the axle, it would be where the metal axle was pressed into the wheel. There would be a plastic bushing. Personally, I would hate such a design, because it would ruin my detection system on my layout.

There are a lot of advantages to 3 rail trains. You just have to make up your mind that the center rail doesn't bother you.

I used to be a member of the Bandana club, but I would never switch to 2 rail O. If I wanted 2 rail, I would go back to HO.

Sorry pal, but YUCK. I hope it never happens.[;)]

[Kooljock1]

I grew up on Long Island where all the train run on three rail track. Anything less just looks goofy!!!

Seriously, they'd have to build two of everything, or build them like MTH is doing in their premiere line. Either way would involve expense and that means more expense to us for a tiny fraction of the market that runs two-rail "O".

Right now there are bigger fi***o fry.

Jon [8D]

[Sturgeon-Phish]

Sure, American Flyer did. [:D]

[thor]

I, for one, hope they don't. I ran 2 rail layouts for years and frankly, I think the advantages of 3 rail outweigh the appearance issue which I now think doesnt matter at all. Lionel's a bit like Harley, they're different, they do things their own way and over the long haul one can come to appreciate it. The icons of Americana are drying up and blowing away and its a sad thing, in my opinion. In the words of one of Lionel's major stockholders "Long may you run".

[Anonymous]

Lionel does make 2 rail - it's called American Flyer!

[cmrj]

Boyd , We are TOY train collector's that is the differance between CTT&MR. The 3rd rail is part of the charm. That is why I like tube track, I have had several 2rail HO layout's, the wireing can be very complicated.[2c] Have a good day Mike

[fwright]

In addition to the wiring and mechanical hassles - which can be overcome, as American Flyer and MTH have shown - the unstoppable push would be on for everything to be in scale.

With a third rail staring you right in the face, having stuff go around amazingly sharp curves (O27, O31, and O36), having animated and operated accessories that are quite out of scale and often non-sensical, and having shortened, lowered, and otherwise toy-like features in the rolling stock are fun, not objectionable.

Once scale appearance becomes the dominant characteristic, the toy-like appeal for kids tends to disappear. I personally believe that this was one of the problems for American Flyer in the '50s and '60s. Yes, their stuff was more realistic. But that meant adults took it more seriously, and there was less and less that would fit a 4x8 table. And an under-the-bed layout was out of the question. And if adults take a toy seriously, it often becomes a non-toy for kids. How many parents would allow their kids to mount baseball trading cards as flappers in their bicycle spokes today? When collecting the cards became an adult hobby, such frivolous play came to an end. I still wonder how much potential money I wasted destroying baseball cards that way. Or put another way, how many of you are going to let Junior race two of your $1,000 (or even $600) 2 rail O engines to see which one will take the curves faster?

No, besides the mechanical and electrical reasons, the third rail ensures it remains a toy at heart. And that would be a terrible thing to lose.

yours in playing with toy trains
Fred W

[mickey4479]

I agree with all of the comments that would keep Lionel 3 rail.

[jefelectric]

Why would they want to. They sell tons more 3 rail than is sold in O gauge 2 rail.

[Anonymous]

I actually tried 2 rail O scale about 5 years ago, but Scale O requires so much space, I gave up on it. I think this is one of the big reasons why very few choose it. I found that I prefered the 3-rail Lionel "look" because of the Lionel set I had in my youth, and the ability to operate in limited space. Lionel only survived because of the guys that remembered the trains of their youth. Given that and MTH's attempt at 2-rail, the guys at Lionel have absolutely no reason to persue 2-rail!

[DSchmitt]

I am a 2-railer.

Lionel makes some very nice scale cars. I have several that I intend to convert to 2-rail, but do not know yet how hard it is too do.

I have converted some MTH and K-Line.

I do wish the companies designed their scale cars for an easy change of trucks and couplers.

I have no experence with changing locos, since all the locos I wanted were offered in 2-rail (beass) or both 2 and 3 rail.

It would be a mistake for the O companies to quit producing 3-rail While I am not a 3-railer, I enjoy 3-rail layouts

[FJ and G]

I don't think so!

Recall a couple of years ago, when speculation was rife about Lionel's new track resembling Super O (more scale appearance).

Well, they did some marketing studies and opted for the new toy track.

They placed their bets on robust toy sales for at least a few more years that the older baby boomers are still alive and kicking (I'm a mid-range baby boomer).

They may delve into some 2-rail (just b/c MTH is), but I see their main focus in O-gauge to continue to be 3 rails. Also, it's part of their baggage.

[Anonymous]

I was hoping Lionel would come out with 4 rail track. I could add some more power pickups on my locos for increased voltage.

Just my thoughts [:-^][:-^][:-^]....Tim

[Boyd]

I do remember seeing an article on an O "scale" layout with an outer 3rd rail. But the layout and rolling stock did seem a little drab compared to Lionel stuff that usually is in brighter colors. Yeah I know about the wiring. Another way would be with overhead wire but that would be another pain.

[Poppa_Zit]

If you three-railers are so proud of your middle rail, why do you guys work so hard to hide it?

Long live American Flyer! [:D]

[Nick12DMC]

I don't think this is such a good idea. Part of the fun is that Lionel is diffrent.
I am new to O gauge and three rail but what really impressed me is all the
things it can do, that two rail can't like the operating cars. My 7 year old son loves it.
If you look at past history. In the 60's Hornby had a 3 rail OO system there main rivals were Tri-ang who had a 2 rail system.
Hornby got into so much trouble developing a 2 rail system of its Hornby Dublo
range. The cost basicly wrecked the company and Tri-ang took them over.

So best to leave well alone in my opinion.

Nick

[Anonymous]

Could they switch? Sure they could!

Will they switch? Not in my lifetime, or yours!

[ADCX Rob]

They already have if you check pg 130-139 of the 2006 catalog.

The online version is even better:



for the Alton Limited on 3 Rail... and then:



For the Alton Limited on the NEW O gauge 2 rail ! Pay close attention to the shape of the rail, ties & coupler - It's O !

Rob

[lionelsoni]

Elliot, if I were going to do 3- to 2-rail conversions, I would sure go for cutting the axle. All you have to do is make a gap in the middle, then insert the half-axles into an insulating tube. I have a 2-rail ETS locomotive that I converted the other way; and that's the way they did it. The insulating material is inside a metal sleeve for strength.

[csxt30]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ADCX Rob

They already have if you check pg 130-139 of the 2006 catalog.
Rob

I wonder if that could be a mistake in the new catalog. the 3rail picture may be from an older catalog. I couldn't find any mention of 2 rail O-scale, so it must be American Flyer all the way !
Thanks,

[Anonymous]

The biggest reason I would not switch to 2 rail is the wiring. Make a reverse loop in 3 rail and 2 rail, which could a 5 year old do, learn to run faster?, HHMMMM?!? reverse what to do what. My son is 7, my daughter is 3 and she can run my stuff. Both kids can run traditional, or command.
My father had a ton of HO and set up a Xmas layout with reverse loops and the kids couldn't get things going. PLUS my track was,is , still is DIRTY!!!!!!!!! trains run good. Try that with 2 rail.
Jim D.
a.k.a. SOCKO

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

Elliot, if I were going to do 3- to 2-rail conversions, I would sure go for cutting the axle. All you have to do is make a gap in the middle, then insert the half-axles into an insulating tube. I have a 2-rail ETS locomotive that I converted the other way; and that's the way they did it. The insulating material is inside a metal sleeve for strength.

Gee Bob, I sure wouldn't want to do that to 500 cars. Mess with gauge on every axle? Ugh. OK, it can be done, but why?

Glad I have no desire to convert. Long live 3 rail trains!!![;)]

[lionelsoni]

Elliot, I wouldn't do it either! I'm just saying that I think axle cutting would be easier than bushing installation--especially for postwar and earlier cars with wheels loose on the axles.

[Big_Boy_4005]

OK , I got it now Bob. I was thinking more along the lines of manufacturing replacement wheel sets, not the do it yourself project.[;)].

[tsgtbob]

Oh did younz asked for this... My [2c]
I am a 2 railer. That being said, I asked (what a concept) executives from Big L at York about this very issue. The reply, NO WAY!!! (remember, K-line was making the shays in 2 rail, most of their scale sized stuff was also available in 2 rail, and MTH had introduced 3/2 convertables)

As for replacement wheelsets, NWSL (North West Short Line) makes wheelsets to convert almost any car. Locos are a different story, but, NWSL makes kits to convert many popular MTH and Lionel diesels to 2 rail.
As for the wiring comments, 2 rail modelers are geared towards prototypical operations, outside of trollys and interurbans "balloon tracks" are unheard of.

I have been a 2 rail modeler, in O, and in the smaller scales since the early 70's. I have never needed a reverse loop. I have used turntables, and wyes (yeah, I know, same issues electrically, but, a wye you don't run at Warp 9!)
Also, 2 railers are more concerned with the model's fidelity to scale, not the color of the box.

I have converted quite a few Lionel MTH, K-Line, Weaver, and Atlas cars to 2 rail. It is not a hard process, not to mention, I have also cut several cars (mostly Lionel) apart to make something resembling a scale car.

Now, before anyone thinks I'm some troll, I ALSO have and run 3 rail. Different aspects of the same hobby.
The 3 rail is "just to run", the 2 rail is my "modeling" hobby. (Of course, I also scratch build in HO, N, TT (remember THAT) and S, both scale and tinplate)

QUOTE: My father had a ton of HO and set up a Xmas layout with reverse loops and the kids couldn't get things going. PLUS my track was,is , still is DIRTY!!!!!!!!! trains run good. Try that with 2 rail.
Jim D.
a.k.a. SOCKO

I clean my track when I clean the scenery, that is once a year. An Atlas SD-35 weighs the same, wither 2 or 3 rail...

[lionelsoni]

From the NWSL site: "Upgrade, fine running, Lionel “roller bearing” wheelsets in /145 and /172 tread—choice of 33” and 36”. Just salvage the ‘spinner’ from your original Lionel wheelsets and install (press on special axle end) on these to upgrade or convert your 3 rail car to 2-rail."

What are they talking about?