TMCC or DCS

[Anonymous]

I have 5 lionel diesel engines and 4 mth diesel engines. I am thinking about remote control, so give me some opinions please. I have a 3 train layout. So which system would be better? I also have many alot of accessories.

[otftch]

They both have thier advantages.I like the hook-up by Dr.Tinker a few months back that integrated the two systems.I don't remember the issue but someone else here might.It would be expensive but well worth it to run both types of loco's.
Ed

[Anonymous]

i have both systems but use only dcs the system-much better system-more options but the dcs system will run both lionel and mth engines-i also had problems with electrical continuity with the tmcc system because of interference so i just run that loop off an old conventional zw to run post war engines and proto one mth engines

[spankybird]

Are your MTH engines PS1 or PS2 [?] If you are planing on running MTH PS2 engines in command, the DCS is your choose. Then you can add TMCC for your Lionel engines.

[wiz1500]

Go with the DCS you can run all your engines with it. I have both and have found that the DCS is a lot easer to use...... I.E. You can read what you are doing instead of trying to remember number codes. Also just a note, If you use TMCC make sure your plug socket in the wall has a good working ground pin....I found out the hard way....
And buy the way you can run your conventional engines easly with the DCS

[laz 57]

Both if you have the funds.
I am running my MTHs in conventional mode with my new ZW transformer with the Cab 1 remote on track power with the remote. I have no problems with them. I can control speed whistle, bell and direction.
If you want all control then get the DCS.
I like TMCC for the Lionel engines it works better for me while using the DCS found to have some quarks with the DCS.
laz57

[Anonymous]

If you want to run everything in command mode you will need both. DCS does allow access to control most ENG functions of a Lionel TMCC loco but not all functions and it does not allow access to any of the other functions. A CAB-1 and Command Base are relatively cheap and you will need them to set up and control Lionel loco's even from DCS. Before you buy into either system, try them out. Some folks are not happy with either system and you could wind up with a significant investment in something you decide you don't like/want/need.

[Anonymous]

If I don't intend to ever run any PS2 stuff (not real happy with MTH over the PS1 stuff but I still have a couple of these engines), is it still smarter to go DCS for my conventional engines. I do have a couple of TMCC equipped engines but have only run them in conventional mode. I have run TMCC on other people's layouts and have no honest idea what makes the DCS equipment a better choice.

[Anonymous]

You only NEED DCS to run PS-2 equipment in command mode. There are other options for remote throttle operation in conventional mode. DCS does inlcude the equivalent of two variable throttle conventional outputs but this is one of its weaker features. These two output ports are limited to 180 watts per channel, 32 speed steps and a fairly high starting voltage. Depending on what power supplies you are using and what features you want to access, their may be other alternatives. Newer ZW's have four improved powermasters built in. An MTH Z-4000 has an optional remote throttle that plugs into it's side. TPC's allow access to "macro" keys to make control of PS-1 and PS-2 engines easier in a conventional environment.

chuck

[jimhaleyscomet]

Lionel's remote control system is much more affordable ($100 instead of $250) so I would start there if I already had the TMCC engines. The lionel engines on the other hand seem to cost more than engines in MTH starter sets.

After a while you would be well served to also get the MTH controller. With it your MTH engines will really shine (adustable smoke for instance). You can control them by pushing button combinations on the transformer but it is alot harder.

Both control systems play very nice with each other. I only use my TMCC to control lionel. Having two remotes makes it easier to operate TMCC and DCS engines together without having to select different engines on the same controller (I like having two remotes and wish I had one for every engine).

Both engine types work in both conventional (voltage controll) and command (digital command) control. I find that my MTH units run better in conventional (easier slow startup) than my Lionel steamers with TMCC.

In conclusion...if you already have both style command engines go first with Lionel TMCC because it is cheaper. Otherwise go with DCS is you have mostly MTH command engines or want to add more command engines which are found cheapest in the sets (about $300).

Jim H

[jimhaleyscomet]

Lionel's remote control system is much more affordable ($100 instead of $250) so I would start there if I already had the TMCC engines. The lionel engines on the other hand seem to cost more than engines in MTH starter sets.

After a while you would be well served to also get the MTH controller. With it your MTH engines will really shine (adustable smoke for instance). You can control them by pushing button combinations on the transformer but it is alot harder.

Both control systems play very nice with each other. I only use my TMCC to control lionel. Having two remotes makes it easier to operate TMCC and DCS engines together without having to select different engines on the same controller (I like having two remotes and wish I had one for every engine).

Both engine types work in both conventional (voltage controll) and command (digital command) control. I find that my MTH units run better in conventional (easier slow startup) than my Lionel steamers with TMCC.

In conclusion...if you already have both style command engines go first with Lionel TMCC because it is cheaper. Otherwise go with DCS is you have mostly MTH command engines or want to add more command engines which are found cheapest in the sets (about $300).

Jim H

[Anonymous]

Thanks Jim - I should have been more clear that I own NO PS2 engines and don't have any plans to get any - I have a couple of PS 1 engines , a couple of TMCC engines, and a bunch of conventional versions. I bought a TMCC set-up with the early 180 supply and quickly found out it would not run the PS1 stuff in conventional mode; it did run my Williams and postwar Lionel pretty nicely though. Before my layout came down, I was using a combination of MRC and older Lionel transformers to run it, which I now have heard are not good for the high-end electronics.
Having tried it on Command- Control layouts, I like the Lionel TMCC product, and will likely get new-era ZW to control them. I just needed to know if there was a significant advantage to the DCS outfit over TMCC if I am running my TMCC trains AND conventional versions (realizing,of course, that I cannot run TMCC Commmand power and throttle-adjusted track power at the same time/on the same track). I hear a lot of poeple singing the DCS praises, but don't understand what benefit it may offer over the Lionel stuff in my case.

[ChiefEagles]

I started with DCS. It is good. Then I added TMCC as I wanted to lash up my Lionel [can be done by tricking DCS]. I found that running MTH with DCS and Lionel with TMCC is very easy [all at the same time]. The CAB1 responds faster than the DCS remote. My suggestion, buy the DCS and add TMCC Command Base and CAB1. You can do almost anything you want. Enjoy it.

[Anonymous]

If you don't own ANY PS-2 loco's and have no intention of buying any, don't by DCS. There are other products that will allow you better control of conventional locomotives. The new ZW has a lot of nice features and has some support for dealing with PS-1 programming. The TPC's have macro button and short dc pulse trains to make programming/activation relatively easy. The CAB-1 was not designed to fire off short spikes for whistle/bell so programming keys have been set up in TPC's and the new ZW. You can still use the bell/whistle buttons if you so chose. Z-4000 has the led readouts, built in programming support and can be hooked up to a basic remote commander. It will also play nice with a TMCC command base and CAB-1.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info. Now, does that mean I should get the TCP as well as the ZW and not use the original TMCC base that I bought back in the late 90s? If I get a TCP, I will probably not be running more than 2 mainline trains at a time, as I want the next layout to be more prototypical in terms of switching, operations, etc. I do have about 20 Atlas switches and would likely create a separate block for yard trackage/engine storage. Do I automatically need the TCP400 if I have the two 180s that come with the ZW, and can one TCP run more than a single block...

[Anonymous]

Woah, slow down fella.

Until they release TMCC-2 or whatever they will call it, you still need the command base and the CAB-1. The only device that can understand a CAB-1 directly are the original PowerMasters. All other devices communicate via the Command Base. A new ZW has four improved PowerMasters built in. It can be controlled by a CAB-1 but you still need a Command Base to talk to it. Also, the ZW will eat up some of the TR's. You will lose 1 Train ID for each independant channel you assing to the ZW. The Track Power Contollers can be assined ENG id's so they won't interfere with "lashp" assignments. If you run a lot of conventional stuff or don't double head loco's this may not be that big an issue.

Each output channel from a ZW can handle a maximum of 180 watts. If you use four 180 power house bricks you can access 180 watts per channel. If you need more than 180 watts per channel then you can look at TPC's. These can handle 300 and 400 watts respectively. The amount of power you will need to supply depends a lot on how much you plan to draw in a given power district/block/subdivision.

As far as breakdown of control, a single TPC-400 could probably handle most peoples layouts but this doesn't mean it's a good idea to wire it up that way. 20 amps is a lot of power to have to interupt in a hurry when something goes wrong. In conventional mode operation you are controlling the loco by raising and lowering track voltage. This means that everything in that block will be subjected to the same power shifts. There are ways to route power to different block varying from basic roatry switches to a Block Power Controller.

Figure out how you want to break down the power districts/divisions and what you want to go on in each. Once you've done this, you'll ave a better idea of how to allocate power conrol devices.

[winrose46]

Even if you will never purchase a Proto2 engine, you might want to consider DCS. I control all my TMCC engines with the DCS controller. I do not know the current prices; however, when I was considering the costs of all the TMCC components it seemed like the DCS was more compact and less complicated and about the same price (2 years ago). If you decide to go TMCC I would get the bare minimum of hardware and wait for TMCCII before making a significant financial contribution to Lionel.

[Anonymous]

Screw MTH, go with TMCC.