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BLACK SMOKE FOR LIONEL ENGINE

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BLACK SMOKE FOR LIONEL ENGINE
Posted by Model A on Friday, January 20, 2006 7:05 PM
HY GUY [:)]
HAS SOMEBODY EVER FOUND A WAY TO MAKE THE SMOKE TO THE LIONEL 2046 AND 8632 ENGINE LOOK BLACK LIKE COAL SMOKE . YHE SMOKE WORK WELL PUFFING WHITE SMOKE USING LIONEL SMOKE LIQUID MODEL A
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Posted by spankybird on Friday, January 20, 2006 7:19 PM
you mean like this



I am a person with a very active inner child. This is why my wife loves me so. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. OTTS Founder www.spankybird.shutterfly.com 

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 20, 2006 8:01 PM
The "smoke" from your train set is vaporized oil. It has nothing to do with combustion, it is more like fog than anything else.

The effect in the previous post is caused by a lighting effect, it is an illusion. In most cases a real steam engine operating in proper fashion will produce very little "smoke". The exhaust up the stack should be mostly steam and either white or invisible. Black smoke is an indication of an inefficient burn or use of an inferior fuel supply..
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Posted by Buckeye Riveter on Friday, January 20, 2006 9:14 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by chuckn


The effect in the previous post is caused by a lighting effect, it is an illusion.


No its not. I've been to Tom's basement several times over the last two years watching the trains run and that is what that darn thing looks like. Some of his engines put out enormous amounts of smoke. Sometimes the basement looks like LA on a smoggy day. [^]

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Posted by Dr.Fu-Manchu on Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:16 AM
The Doctor Is In !!! For the enlightenment of all: When you see a Steam Locomotive smoke Black, It's because the Engineer is blowing the exhaust tubes. It's to keep things working properly. I was a U.S. Navy boiler tech back in the day(late70's) And we had to clear the flues on our boilers to maintain proper fuel consumption. You see it on steam train fan runs for the photographers trackside. As to the diesel loco's, diesel is smokey, and dark. Someday we may see a model diesel blow black smoke, who knows! Till My Next Missive I Remain The Humble But Strangly Evil Doctor(ex-steaming demon) [}:)]
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Posted by prewardude on Saturday, January 21, 2006 4:11 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

QUOTE: Originally posted by chuckn


The effect in the previous post is caused by a lighting effect, it is an illusion.


No its not. I've been to Tom's basement several times over the last two years watching the trains run and that is what that darn thing looks like. Some of his engines put out enormous amounts of smoke. Sometimes the basement looks like LA on a smoggy day. [^]



Okay then, what is his secret?
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Posted by spankybird on Saturday, January 21, 2006 6:26 AM
Most of the time, Bayberry or Chirstmas Pine ! !

Have to keep the Misses happy !

I am a person with a very active inner child. This is why my wife loves me so. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. OTTS Founder www.spankybird.shutterfly.com 

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 21, 2006 6:31 AM
The amount of smoke is real. The "color" is not.
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Posted by Buckeye Riveter on Saturday, January 21, 2006 6:32 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by prewardude

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

QUOTE: Originally posted by chuckn


The effect in the previous post is caused by a lighting effect, it is an illusion.


No its not. I've been to Tom's basement several times over the last two years watching the trains run and that is what that darn thing looks like. Some of his engines put out enormous amounts of smoke. Sometimes the basement looks like LA on a smoggy day. [^]



Okay then, what is his secret?


I'll let Tom tell you because I don't know his secret. Almost all of his engines are MTH and if you think the one in the photo is smoking you should see his the Generals. The smoke just boils out of the stack. The smoke doesn't start out dark but a few laps around the layout can set off the smoke alarms. In fact the one in the photo is not smoking very much.

I took video of Tom's trains over a year and one half ago. The video shows the dark grey smoke pouring out of several of his engines. I sent the small avi files to Tom and I think he at one time had a link to them so people on the forum could see them.

I know it is not an illusion. They smoke in heavy quantities and the stuff turns darker as he cranks it up around the layout. Cough, cough![xx(][xx(][xx(]

Just remembered a photo I had from one of my visits.

Now ya know.

Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum. Smile, Wink & Grin

Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..

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Posted by nblum on Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:09 AM
Anything that looked black would have to have particulate matter in it, and would be even worse for your heart and lungs than the vaporized mineral oil we are currently using. It would probably be banned from sale, much less use in a public place as a serious health hazard. Sorry.
Neil (not Besougloff or Young) :)
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Posted by csxt30 on Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:27 AM


Yeah TOM, we haven't gotten all oiled up in a long time !![(-D][(-D][(-D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:29 AM
What "color" are clouds? What color is fog. Unsaturated steam is completely clear. As the water molecules condense into larger droplets they start to refract and diffuse light. If a cloud or fog is dense enough it starts trapping light instead of diffusing it. It will go from bright white to light grey to dark grey to almost black. The vaporized mineral oil used in toy train smoke behaves the same way. It usually condenses back into liquid oil before it can reach a density to block enough light to appear realy dark.
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Posted by Buckeye Riveter on Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:00 AM
John, You're right. I haven't been to an oiling party at Tom's for quit sometime. The last time Keith and I really got into the oil and the Miller High Life. Talk about fog!!!

Tom, I never heard how everything worked after Keith and I took advice from a poster on the forum and convinced you that the Z and all of your other electronics needed oiled. [:D]

Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum. Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:44 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by chuckn

What "color" are clouds? What color is fog. Unsaturated steam is completely clear. As the water molecules condense into larger droplets they start to refract and diffuse light. If a cloud or fog is dense enough it starts trapping light instead of diffusing it. It will go from bright white to light grey to dark grey to almost black. The vaporized mineral oil used in toy train smoke behaves the same way. It usually condenses back into liquid oil before it can reach a density to block enough light to appear realy dark.


100 percent correct. Let me add that dense-enough (heavy) clouds will only appear dark if back-lit. The light source in the photo is from the front, near the camera lens. Anyone who has flown through cumulonimbus thunderstorm clouds can attest that inside the cloud, all appears white nearest the sun and darker away from it. Thunderstorm clouds also appear bright white from top to bottom when moving away from the sun, toward the horizon. Plus, being a master with industrial-strength Photoshop and a professional photographer, I can fill a whole layout room with black smoke -- right on my computer screen. Or yellow smoke, or mauve or or taupe or fuschia.

So stop trying to pull our legs on this, guys. The game is up. Consider yerselves exposed. We're all way too sophisticated to be fooled by this little scam.

Plus, if someone really did come up with a toy train smoke fluid that truly came out black under all lighting conditions, they'd be marketing the product and be millionaires and they'd own their own 1:1 railroad. LOL [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled, however, to their own facts." No we can't. Charter Member J-CASS (Jaded Cynical Ascerbic Sarcastic Skeptics) Notary Sojac & Retired Foo Fighter "Where there's foo, there's fire."
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Posted by Roger Bielen on Saturday, January 21, 2006 11:37 AM
Chemists & hobbiest have been trying to come up with a black smoke for years without success. Anything that would smoke black is toxic or irritating.
Roger B.
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Posted by dwiemer on Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:21 PM
[the Miller High Life. Talk about fog!!!
[
Now we know where the smoke comes from! Tom's using Miller High Life in his stacks!!![:o)] Actually, it would be neat to have a steamer start out with heavy black smoke and then ease into the running white puffs. Of course, the Lionel smoke fluid already causes my wife to wheeze and she would love for me to make more smoke.
Dennis

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Posted by Buckeye Riveter on Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:22 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by puttlagger

Originally posted by chuckn


So stop trying to pull our legs on this, guys. The game is up. Consider yerselves exposed. We're all way too sophisticated to be fooled by this little scam.


[:D] Give that man a cigar! We have a winner!!!!

FYI, over a year ago, there was this guy posting on another forum who advocated oiling the Lionel CAB-1 , and yes we mean taking the oil and spraying it inside the remote. The photos were taken in Tom's basement as a little satire on the subject. [:D][:D]

Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum. Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by spankybird on Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:34 PM
This always comes up about twice a year about black smoke. Lighting is the trick with an engine that can produce lots of smoke. No dought about it, Nothing smokes like MTH





tom

I am a person with a very active inner child. This is why my wife loves me so. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. OTTS Founder www.spankybird.shutterfly.com 

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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:49 PM
QUOTE:
QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Originally posted by puttlagger

Originally posted by chuckn


So stop trying to pull our legs on this, guys. The game is up. Consider yerselves exposed. We're all way too sophisticated to be fooled by this little scam.


[:D] Give that man a cigar! We have a winner!!!!

FYI, over a year ago, there was this guy posting on another forum who advocated oiling the Lionel CAB-1 , and yes we mean taking the oil and spraying it inside the remote. The photos were taken in Tom's basement as a little satire on the subject. [:D][:D]


Gosh! Spraying oil into the CAB-1 remote!

What a moron! Everyone knows you're supposed to DIP IT in a can of oil!
[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled, however, to their own facts." No we can't. Charter Member J-CASS (Jaded Cynical Ascerbic Sarcastic Skeptics) Notary Sojac & Retired Foo Fighter "Where there's foo, there's fire."
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Posted by spankybird on Saturday, January 21, 2006 4:02 PM
Buckeye, It was his DCS remote, not his Cab1. He had problems with the tumb wheel. But really he had many more problems ! ! ! ! !

I am a person with a very active inner child. This is why my wife loves me so. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. OTTS Founder www.spankybird.shutterfly.com 

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Posted by csxt30 on Saturday, January 21, 2006 4:15 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by puttlagger

QUOTE:
QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Originally posted by puttlagger

Originally posted by chuckn


So stop trying to pull our legs on this, guys. The game is up. Consider yerselves exposed. We're all way too sophisticated to be fooled by this little scam.


[:D] Give that man a cigar! We have a winner!!!!

FYI, over a year ago, there was this guy posting on another forum who advocated oiling the Lionel CAB-1 , and yes we mean taking the oil and spraying it inside the remote. The photos were taken in Tom's basement as a little satire on the subject. [:D][:D]


Gosh! Spraying oil into the CAB-1 remote!

What a moron! Everyone knows you're supposed to DIP IT in a can of oil!
[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]


Oh yeah ! I've recently found that Total Emersion is by far the best & of course theSafest way for oiling my Cab ! Iuse the same Lube oil that Diesel engines use too ! You can't go wrong with this method !! I highly reccomend it !! [:D][:D][:D]
Thanks, John
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Posted by Buckeye Riveter on Saturday, January 21, 2006 7:39 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by spankybird

This always comes up about twice a year about black smoke.
tom


Tom,
We are about due for the following topics:
1. Should I buy two Xs for this amount or five Ys for this amount.
2. For sale all my trains. Need money for brain transplant.
3. I found a train in the trash, what's it worth if I put it back together and sell if on EBAY.
4. Should I run my trains clockwise on even numbered dates and counter clockwise on odd number dates to even out the wear on the (put your own part name here.)
5.Does anyone have layout plans that can handle four trains at a time and fits in the back seat of my 42 Dodge.
6. If I take 15 transistors, 5 resistors and glue them to the engine will it run better?
7. Do you know of any good train stores in the Mojave Desert? Pakistan? South Jersey?
8. I would like to run my new MTH loco outside. I'm thinking of covering it with hairspray so it won't bleach out.
9. Should I build my layout 46 inches or 46 1/2 inches off the floor? Which is better ergonomically?
10. I need help getting my layout started because I am all the time on the CTT forum. Do you know of a good counselor for stress?

The black smoke question is a great question compared to some we have seen!!!!!

Hope you guys enjoyed seeing Tom's smoking trains and of course Spankybird.

.

Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum. Smile, Wink & Grin

Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..

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Posted by dwiemer on Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:11 AM
Of course if you realllllly want black smoke, it is possible, anyone see the trolley a few months ago in CTT? I think I will just run with the smoke that comes in the sets.
dennis

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Posted by Roger Bielen on Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:20 AM
How about flames shooting from the stack of a GP? It would truely be protypical, I've seen it a few times.
Roger B.
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Posted by twaldie on Monday, January 23, 2006 4:42 PM
Not sure how to make black smoke. I have some ideas but I'n not going to try them out until I have a bigger fire extinguisher.
Buckeye, I was intrigued by your idea of adding transistors and resistors. The way I see it, if you keep randomly cramming stuff into the engine and tender, you will either (1) reach critical mass, at which point your engines wont need transformers anymore (or running lights), or (2) the engine/tender will, because it has taken in enough matter, become a black hole, and suck up your layout, so smoke will no longer be an issue!
It seems to me that the manufacturers are already trying to achieve (2). I have an EE and I dont dare touch the new engines!
Well, down to the shop to glue some more stuff in.
Tim
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Posted by wrmcclellan on Monday, January 23, 2006 5:02 PM
Hmmmmm....

Seem to be some directed comments here - wonder who they apply to??? [;)]

"10. I need help getting my layout started because I am all the time on the CTT forum. Do you know of a good counselor for stress?"

Regards, Roy

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