Layout Fires

[Anonymous]

I read with alarm the recent CTT article about a layout fire started by a Lionel Bumping Trolley after the owner had shut off his layout and pulled the plug. Have any other readers of this forum had fires on their layouts. Certainly I can think of obvious ways a fire could start on a layout. But the trolley fire was a surprise. The article did not give an analysis or theory on exactly what happened so I can only guess. While I try to be careful of fire risk in my layout I always believed that any fire would happen while the trains were turned on and could be quickly extinguished. Indeed I have had to blow out a burning smoke unit on a steamer that overheated and flamed. But I would be curious to hear of others experiences. We can all learn from these instances. Phil Klopp

[pbjwilson]

Phil,
First off - Welcome to the forum.

I havent had any fires but have had fried wires several times. Last time it happened was around the Christmas tree a couple years ago. All I remember is the smell of burning plastic. I started looking around the layout and then noticed the main feeder wires going to the track were smoking and melting. I quickly shut everything down. Something was laying across the tracks shorting it out. Why the transformer didnt click off I dont know. Pretty scary with the carpeting, tree and eveything else that was combustible.

[Anonymous]

While I also havent had any fires, I have had a few locomotive circuit boards go up in smoke, one was a MTH WVP&P shay the first time it was on the track, house stunk the rest of the day! Now my layout is devoid of circuit boards, all my stuff is pre 1950 postwar lionel, except for repair work in house that isnt mine. Cheers Mike

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hi Phil, that was actually CTT's own Kent Johnson that wrote of that charming, albeit unpleasant, chain of events. He told the story well, with humor, after the excitement was over.

At the age of about 6 or 7, I managed to really fry a small transformer. I didn't have the electrical understanding that I do today, but I must have created a direct short. There were no flames, but the room filled with smoke. It was cold outside, and we had to leave the window open for a long time to air it out.

It was shortly after this event that I got a used ZW, and stopped playing with my trains in my bedroom. The new house rule was unplug the transformer when the red light went on. To this day, I hate the "plink" sound of that circuit breaker, but now I know how to prevent having to hear it.

By the way Phil, I knew your name sounded familiar, and I finally figured out why. You and I have a similar connection to Tom McComas. [swg]

[Anonymous]

A very good backup to iffy breakers is fast-acting cartridge fuses. I use old Autolite fuse blocks purchased at flea markets as combination terminal strip and fuse holder at the point where I distribute Railpower outbound and Common Return inbound from/to my TPCs/PoHos.
I use 10 amp fuses for some power districts and 8 amp for others. The layout has a main 15 amp commercial cutoff switch w/pilot light to remind me as I exit.

I also keep a Dry Powder fire extingusher at the layout room door.

[ben10ben]

My primary layout power source is a postwar KW. Although I know that the circuit breaker works well, I typically find that my reaction time is a whole faster than the breaker's. Whenever I hear labored buzzing sound and see all the bulb on my lighted dimming, I know to immediately shut off the power and correct the problem.

[ChiefEagles]

I use Ben's light trick [got one buring right near the transformer]. I built a fast acting circuit breaker box [OGR has a Back Shop Video of this]. Easy to do. Works great. Like Leonard's but resetable. A master kill switch to kill all layout power too.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Leonard

A very good backup to iffy breakers is fast-acting cartridge fuses. I use old Autolite fuse blocks purchased at flea markets as combination terminal strip and fuse holder at the point where I distribute Railpower outbound and Common Return inbound from/to my TPCs/PoHos.
I use 10 amp fuses for some power districts and 8 amp for others. The layout has a main 15 amp commercial cutoff switch w/pilot light to remind me as I exit.

I also keep a Dry Powder fire extingusher at the layout room door.

All good suggestions and precautions for safety. What is potentially scary about the "smoking trolly" is that none of those precautions may have prevented it. If the overheating problem was internal to the unit, it might not have been enough to have tripped a breaker or blown a fuse.

As for fire extinguishers dry chemical is rated for A, B, and C type fires, but so is CO2. CO2 is more expensive, but doesn't make a mess putting out a fire. Either style, keep one handy, and hope you never need it.

[Anonymous]

[:D]The problem with CO2 is that some peole use it to cool beer and you never know when its ready!
Anyway, my preference, no CO2 in my house or shop.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Leonard

[:D]The problem with CO2 is that some peole use it to cool beer and you never know when its ready!
Anyway, my preference, no CO2 in my house or shop.

Here in the Northland, for at least 3 months out of the year, you can just throw the beer in the snowbank, and the garage is a walk-in freezer. Why waste CO2 when you can use mother nature's refrigerator?[swg]

Cold weather has it's advantages.[:p][8D]

[lionelsoni]

You all have probably heard this from me before. I repeatedly see and warn about examples of two fire dangers that show up on this forum:

Using wire that cannot carry the current that the transformer's circuit breaker is rated at. Often wire sizes are recommended on the basis of voltage drop, to keep the train speeds constant. That's okay; but they should also be heavy enough not to burn up before the circuit breaker opens. For 20 amperes, 12 AWG; for 15 amperes, 14 AWG; for 10 amperes, 16 AWG.

Running between blocks powered from different sources, especially when those sources are from the same Lionel transformer. In this case there is no circuit-breaker protection at all. Anyone who still wants to do this should add external circuit breakers or fuses to all the outputs. I like the automatically-resetting automotive types.

[winrose46]

Before I realized the importance of common ground etc. I could not figure out why my culvert loader (or unloader do not remember which) would melt the wire sometimes so I covered the bottom with cardboard. I can not overstress if you do not use the new transformers use a quick acting 10 amp fuse in line with each output from your post war boxes. I fried two circuit boards before I learned the importance of the fuses.

[Anonymous]

For running conventionally, I am going to use 2 modern era ZW's with a total of 8 transformer outputs, and an old KW with 2 transformer outputs. I am guessing that the breakers on the modern ZW are good enough for what I will be doing. When I have a derailment, they seem to snap into action faster than I can realize there's a problem, so I think they're pretty reliable. The KW wll be used to run layout lights (lighted buildings, etc), and it will also be used for voluntary accessories like the coal loaders and then barbers in the barber shop, etc. No current from the KW will connect in any way to the wires going to tracks or to trains. Automatic accessories, like the gateman, the switch tower, etc, will all come off of the ZW's. So, do I need to add some type of fuses or circuit breakers in line with the outputs from that KW? If so, would it work to use a TMCC lock-on in line (to take advantage of the automatically re-setting circuit breaker)? I am not running command control, just conventional, but the question is if I could use the direct lock on in-line (not actually as a track lock on) to go from the KW to the terminal strip, then to the various selectable (voluntary) accessories.

Thanks