Concrete expert help needed

[FJ and G]

I'm going to be sealing my outdoor toy train roadbed in quarter fines (see below email from my experienced O scale outdoor friend in Nevada for description). He uses the Quickrete bonding adhesive, which I pulled up from the Quickrete website and posted below. However, unfortunately, my Lowes and HD do not carry it. Instead, they carry Sakrete products, one of which (posted below) looks similar to the Quickrete product recommended by my toy train friend.

Q: Is the Sakrete product near identical to the Quickrete product (so I can substitute & use the Sakrete carried at HD).

Much Thanks

The email advice to me follows:

As far as free floating the rail in roadbed, I've found the best way is to go ahead, and do it just like the large scale guys do. Then go out and get yourself some Quickcrete brand Bonding adhesive. Its a cement crack filler, and is rubber based. Mix it 1 to 3 parts water, add a few drops of liquid dish soap, to keep it from drying shiny, and put it in a weed sprayer. Adjust the spray tip to a very narrow spray, so it will go in between the rails, and put it directly on the roadbed and ties. Also about 2 to 3 inches out on each side. Soak it so you get about .5 to 1 inch depth in the roadbed. 2 Gallons does about 100 feet. Its cheap, and easy to do! Just make sure and wipe off any that gets on the rail tops!
It dries to a hard rubber consistency, is perfectly clear, and will keep the track from "floating up" Plus its almost impervious to animal, and foot traffic. Just ask my 100 .Lb Great Peirnees. she used to tear up the track all the time just walking on it!
Also if you have to make a correction, or want to change the track you can still pick it up, and nock the "cemented" roadbed off the track and use it again.
All of my guest can't even tell its there, until I have them bend over, and rap on the roadbed. you should see the look on their faces when they realize its hard is priceless!
It also makes the track real easy to clean, no lose rocks or sand, and it still allows the track to contract, and expand with the weather.

Here are the product descriptors brought up from each company's websites:

SAKRETE
Concrete Bonder (Acrylic Adhesive)
Amstone Concrete Bonder promotes a strong bond between new and old concrete, mortar or plaster. Ideal for use with SAKRETE Sand Mix or SAKRETE Concrete Mix. Do not allow bonder to dry before new concrete is placed.
USES: For permanently bonding new concrete to old.
COVERAGE: 1 gallon covers approx. 200-300 sq. ft.
PACKAGING: 1 gallon jug 4/case - 1 quart bottle 12/case

QUIKRETE
Concrete Bonding Adhesive
Penetrates pores of old concrete, forming a chemical bond for new concrete overlays 1" or thicker. Apply directly to concrete surface.
Available in:
1 qt. bottle - 12 per case
1 gallon bottle - 4 per case

[wrmcclellan]

Calling BUCKEYE, calling BUCKEYE [:)]

[Anonymous]

Odd that neither place carries it, must be regional. I only see Quickcrete products here (midwest) at both Lowes and HD but I remember the Sakrete line from when I lived out east.

BOT, same stuff. If you want to try it out get a smaller quantity and test it. I know it works for parging a thin layer of new concrete over older roughed up stuff. Never thought to use it in this fashion. I would only mix it in small batches anyway. Concrete on bottom will try to pull moisture from the mix and if the humidity is low stuff will set pretty fast.

[FJ and G]

Thx, Chuck.

BTW, below the crusher fines (smaller than 1/4" gravel) is 1:1 ballast sized rocks with larger rocks below that.

[Anonymous]

I dont know if this helps you or not. But I found by mixing a little limestone with Elmers glue, you get a concrete looking product without all of the mess of mixing concrete. You can smooth the mixture out with a popcicle stick, and after if dries, a little fine sandpaper to take out the rough edges. It works great to simulate roadways, and also building foundations. Make sure you get the pulveriized limestone, and not the pellets. You can get lime at any lawn supply center. Hope this helps, or at least gives you an idea for other options.

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrmcclellan

Calling BUCKEYE, calling BUCKEYE [:)]

I'm back.

Here's some interesting facts. The two products SAKRETE and QUIKRETE
are interesting products. I would not consider either of these products professional grade for serious concrete work. In other words, if I had to "glue" a new bridge abutment addtion on to an exisiting bridge abutment, neither SAKRETE or QUIKRETE would make the grade. (I'm not talking model train abutments!)

Extensive product descriptions are found on the SAKRETE web page in pdf format. Products such as produced by the 3M Company would be more to my liking if I were looking for a concrete adhesive product.

From the description, Dave is not using the product as intended by the manufacturer, so who knows what the final result will be. Products like this are usually very temperature dependent, again download the product description sheets. Also check the safety warnings if any for these type of products.

[FJ and G]

Correct, in "not using product as intended." Concrete IS NOT being used. This is a ballast firmer usage (just like indoor guys do only for outdoors)

Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough that this isn't for concrete.

Going off an experienced outdoor RR guy.

Oftentimes, we adapt products to meet our needs such as chicken wire or screen for mountains and glue for ballast.

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Correct, in "not using product as intended." Concrete IS NOT being used. This is a ballast firmer usage (just like indoor guys do only for outdoors)

Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough that this isn't for concrete.

Going off an experienced outdoor RR guy.

Oftentimes, we adapt products to meet our needs such as chicken wire or screen for mountains and glue for ballast.

And Dave there is not one thing wrong with using a product as it was not intended, I do it all the time within reason. Just know and follow any safety precautions. BTW, do you have an 84 Lumber near you? They might carry the Quickrete products.

[poppyl]

Dave;

You might want to talk to your friend in Nevada about the effect that air temperature may have on what you are doing. You may find that you need to cover the job with plastic sheeting to allow it to set up properly or that the outside air is just too cold right now to do the job even with sheeting in place.

Poppyl

[FJ and G]

Again, thanks all for advice Buckeye and Poppyl. It's just a bad time of year to be working outside. Also, gotta put some space between rails so they can expand in the summer.

Thanks, all.

[Anonymous]

Product locator on web site:http://www.quikrete.com/

Call one nearest you to see who they distribute to.

QUIKRETE® - Chesapeake
Phone: [phone]
Address: 3712 Cook Boulevard
Chesapeake, VA 23323

QUIKRETE® - Chilhowie
Phone: [phone]
Address: PO Box 586
671 Wadill Lane
Chilhowie, VA 24319

QUIKRETE® - Martinsville
Phone: [phone]
Address: 930 Meadowood Trail
Martinsville, VA 24112

QUIKRETE® - Pounding Mill
Phone: [phone]
Address: PO Box 134
Route 460, Hwy 19
Pounding Mill, VA 24637

[c50truck]

Say, don't forget your independent lumberyard. They’re out there and they have employees with a wealth of information for you. Many are hobbyist as well, and love to help on projects. I personally have helped many folks with their crafts or hobbies. Airplane builders love getting damaged hollow core door blanks for worktables. They can stick pins etc right into them. Many folks have found damaged solid core door blanks for tables or sectional train set surfaces as great. Quickrete is a brand name; many regional concrete suppliers don't want to pay the royalties to supply the product in the Quickrete bag. There are similar products out there. Not familiar with your local so I can't recommend.