DCS Problem

[laz 57]

HI GIZ,
I recently set up another small layout with two fast tracks one of 0-36 and the other with 0-48 radiuses. I had this problem before at about Feb. or March and with a couple of GIZ, (SPANKYBIRD TOM, CHIEF, AND LIONELSONI) we couldn't figure it out. The problem is with the variable track one when it is hooked up and I run conventional engines with whistles the whistle will blow constantly, till I roll up to 22 volts by that time the train is off the tracks. I tried the light trick under the table, did not do anything still blowing. I tried all makes MTH LIONEL< KLINE all the same result. What can I do? I have it hooked up to a ZW with 180 watt power blocks. Different layout same result.
laz57

[spankybird]

Laz = do you have a different transformer to use. Your ZW (new model) has a built in TCP unit in it. I have seen many reports of people have problems with this crop sinewave with DCS.

[laz 57]

10-4 TOM its new. Any suggestions?
Same ole problem. The MTH ps2s work ok but the conventionals are driving me NUTS.
laz57

[laz 57]

TOM, I have a few CW80s and a few 1033s will any of these work?
laz57

[Anonymous]

Good Morning,
Your old 1033 90 watt transformer may work but I do not believe your cw80 will work. Give your 1033 a try. If you still have the problem with your whistle blowing using your old 1033, I suggest you call MTH and talk to Tim Alder Ext. # 513. There may be a problem with your TIU. Hope everything works out. Have a nice day.
Jimmy

[spankybird]

Laz - I agree with Jim. Try the 1033. The CW80 also used a crop sine wave. You really don't want to know my personal opion of the CW80.

tom

[laz 57]

Thanks GIZ,
Do I need to put a fuse between the line and DCS?
laz57

[spankybird]

IT would be a GREAT idea to add the fuse between the transformer and the TIU.

[ChiefEagles]

LAZ, I got a ZW [old type] and it works great [just like my older KW's] as the NS SD90's ran fine on my track. I built [you can buy them already built] a fast acting circuit breaker box [has 4 breakers in it]. Works great. I got several derailments the other night. Tripped immediately. Could not figure out what was going on. One Lionel SD80 threw a tire and another tire jamed. Had to end up "re-shoeing" three tires on that engine. [really a Rebel invasion to your layout is causing it [;)]]

[wrmcclellan]

Hey Laz,

To test it with the 1033, you do not need a fuse. Long term it is a good idea.

The reason it stopped at 22 volts is that the sine wave was back to "normal". In other words, the transformer was no longer "chopping" the sine wave and thus the electronics no longer perceived the chopped wave as a DC offset (which is what blows the whistle or horn).

[laz 57]

Thanks GIZ,
The 1033 worked great.
NO HORN BLOWING YEPEEEEEE!!!

Roy I understand the thing with the sine wave THANKS!!!!!
CHIEF or TOM, will the fast acting fuses that they sell at radio shack work?
What size fuse do I need?
laz57

[wrmcclellan]

Laz - Yes - use a 15 amp fast blow.

[laz 57]

Thanks ROY
laz57

[Anonymous]

LAZ,

The guys who mentioned the chopped sine waves were right on, but there is a little more to it. As mentioned above, the new ZW chops the sine wave to simulate increases and decreases in voltage and so do the variable channels of the TIU. So you are sending a chopped sine wave from one device into another device which does the same thing. The wave form coming out probably looks pretty interesting.

The 1033, like an old ZW or any older transformer, sends out a pure sine wave.

I am using the Lionel 180 watt power houses without the ZW and do not experience the problem.

[waltrapp]

Interesting!!

I was so discouraged over my PW horn's (and 2 other non-PS anything engines)constant horn blowing when using DCS. I worked directly with Jason at MTH - sent him my TIU and my engine. He claimed it didn't happen to him.

I was running off of VAR 1 and then VAR2.

I tried a PW ZW, a PW 'V', an MTH Z1000, and MRC dual 270, a 60 watt older Lionel transformer... made no difference.

For me, as soon as I raised the transfomer to 14V the horn would start blowing - and that was consistent across all of the transformers. If I kept it at 13.9 or below, no horn blowing. I realized that this threw the remote's display of the output voltage all out of whack but that was OK since all I had to do was look at the train and see how fast it was running. However, that pretty much eliminated using any of the non-PS2 engines on any of my ramps.

I never did resolve it and now I don't use DCS to run my non-PS2 trains.

- walt

[laz 57]

RAK,
Thanks for the info. What do I need to run the 180 blocks direct to the DCS. The connection from the block to the DCS will need some type of wire with the pos and common wire.
laz57

[laz 57]

Who are these KNUCKLEHEADS?
laz57

[spankybird]

Walt, when you had your problem, were you using any part of TMCC [?]

[Anonymous]

Laz,

There are two ways, that I know of, to connect the Lionel Power Bricks to DCS. I have done both:

1) There is a plug set, manufactured by Lionel, that allows you to connect two Powerhouses together to connect them to a TPC unit. The set is actually a "Y" connector which has two female connectors to mate with the connector coming out of the Brick. I cut this "Y" connector apart, and soldered banana plugs to each of the wires coming from each female connecter. This gave me two Lionel Connector to Banana Plug set-ups to connect two Bricks to two TIU inputs.

2) Cut the plug off of the Powerhouse and either solder banana plugs to it to connect to the TIU or just tin the wires from the Powerhous, slip them through the holes in the binding posts on the TIU and tighten the plastic nut.

In my portable boxes I opted to cut the plugs off of the Powerhouses as there was just too much cord for what I was doing.

Three things to note when connecting 180 Watt Powerhouses to DCS:

1) Cutting off the plug voids the Lionel warrantee
2) Some of the Lionel 180 Watt power bricks were not assembled correctly at the factory and were out of phase-whichever method you opt for, MAKE SURE THAT THE TRANFORMERS ARE IN PHASE!
3) Test the circuit breakers in the Power Houses before you connect them to DCS. Out of six bricks, I have had one with a breaker that would not "Pop" under any circumstances. This caused an early TIU to fry and blew a lot of fuses in a newer one before I caught on to the problem.

[laz 57]

RAK,
Thanks for info.
Going to train store on Friday, I will try the first set up.
Thanks again,
laz57

[laz 57]

RAK got the Male prong to go to the 180 watt brick and low and behold all is good.
NO problems what so ever. Thanks GIZ.
laz57

[spankybird]

Gezz Laz, didn't you and I have a discusstion about connecting your brick to the TIU directly months back. I think I told you the main problem was the TCP unit in the ZW.

[laz 57]

Yes TOM you did.
Put the unit away then this past few weeks started messing around with it and got it all straightened out.
Thanks again for the info.
Works GREAT.
laz57

[ChiefEagles]

This thing just ate my reply????? "Tom, LAZ is hard of hearing.[;)] LAZ, I learned long ago to listen to Tom and RAK when it comes to DCS."