Hi Gloss Paint being Outlawed!

[FJ and G]

According to a front-page Washington Post article a few days ago, many states are outlawing glossy paint; that is, oil-based paint. They are allowing it to be sold until the shelves are empty and then latex substitutes will be offered in their place.

Actually, it's the VAC or fumes from the oil that cause this type of paint to be banned, as it supposedly presents health hazards.

I've long used glossy black to mix with sand to make asphalt roads. Also, many hobby paints contain oils and I use these as well.

Times used to be much simpler!

[cheese3]

I don't see what is wrong with glossy paints, you should be venting where you are working right? In a couple of years they will probly say some thing is wrong with latex and then the substitute that they put in place of latex. It is never going to end.

[csxt30]

Dave thanks for that info! I want to make a road by my Diner & wonder if you could tell me about your mix of paint & sand, that may be the perfect thing for me. Thanks again, John

[Anonymous]

Most oil based paints were banned years ago in Southern California (SCQAMD) to help meet smog requirements.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/coatings/arch/ceqa/DEIR/Chapter4.pdf

Daniel Lang

[ben10ben]

The last couple several days, my chemistry class has been working on cleaning the chemistry lab and inventorying the various supplies. Yesterday, in the course of cleaning out drawers, I found several 4" square sheets of asbestos used when placing hot objects on a countertop. Upon showing these to my teacher, I was instructed to throw them away, as most likely countless federal agencies would order be done.

According to the message sent today, I should be dead by now because I handled a what has been labeled a highly hazardous and dangerous material. Because I'm typing this message, though, you can see that I'm not, and the fact is that the amount of asbestos handled presented no danger at all. For some reason, it's believed that asbestos is dangerous in any form when anywhere, while the fact is that as long as it's in good condition, it's probably more dangerous to remove it than to let it be.

The sad truth is that lead, PCBs, asbestos, and many other products are considered to be dangerous. They can be, but only if improperly handled. Oil based paints have been in use for years, and I don't believe that I've ever heard of any ill effects from them. If they're abused, I'm sure that they can be, but anyone who will "deliberately concentrate and inhale contents" really is stupid enough that they're probably doing us all a favor anyway.

One of these days, I expect a study to find that humans are carcinogenic. Next thing you know, they'll be outlawing the birth of new humans.

[Anonymous]

Study this page carefully to guard against exposure to Dihydrogen Monoxide

http://www.dhmo.org/

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits,
Bob

[Anonymous]

Hey everything will kill you, my grandfather was a surgeon, and said "everything in moderation." I live by it.

[Roger Bielen]

It's VOC's, volitile organic compounds. As mentioned these have had strict limits in Cal. for years. When doing a plant relocation in the Anahiem (sp?) area years ago all the storage tanks for detergent concentrates had to be painted white and be kept at a certain pressure due to the small amounts of alcohols in them. NJ is another state that was in the forefront in VOC control. This is also the reason you see vapor seals/returns on gas pump nozzles.

[Anonymous]

Note to W4BAR,

How much longer do we have to wait before the EPA finally bans that stuff?

The Great Lakes are already full of it.

wolverine49

[brianel027]

I just wi***hey would outlaw the use of moth-eaten old-hat postwar railroad road names on starter sets and related separate sale items that are supposedly geared to introduce younger folks to the hobby.

If the New York Central and Pennsy never appeared on another stater set, that's something I would celebrate. It's not I dislike those roads... it's just so much affordable end beginner stuff is issued in those 2 roads. Those lines appealed to kids that were kids 50 years ago. And if those things sell, it's because grandpa's are buying grandson's train sets based on their memories, and not their grandson's. Run some trains for kids and see how boring all-black Nofolk Southern gets far more excited response than PRR and NYC (at least in my neck of the woods). Replace those well-worn names with Norfolk Southern and BNSF.... CSX, CNA, Conrail, CP, Soo.... anything remotely current. UP, Chessie and Santa Fe seem to be as close as they get to current.

[Anonymous]

>>How much longer do we have to wait before the EPA finally bans that stuff?
The Great Lakes are already full of it.<<

If it wasn't there you wouldn't have had the sea lampreys or Zebra Mussels to contend with.

If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us back out?
Bob

[ben10ben]

I understand that the Great Lakes hydrogen hydroxide dumping ground problem has found its way into our other lakes, rivers, and even into our oceans. If we don't act now, all the water in the world may soon be contaminated!

[trigtrax]

The Gloss of a paint is determined by the amount of varnish in the formula. This ru***o ban or regulate "Everything" is going to get us all into trouble at some point. Every substance, molecule, or chemical reacts in some way with everything else. The more these people dig into things the more subtances or chemicals they will attempt to ban. One of the reasons all your trains are made in China is that regulations for manufacture are less restrictive.
Life is not a sterile process. We cannot live in a bubble with a totally controlled environment. But that seems to be the goal of some of these scientists who keep chasing after stuff to ban.

[Anonymous]

Alas, it appears that another thread has been hijacked. The paint issue remains complex and should not be glossed-over. Clearly, more research is needed.

With the DHMO question, the devil is in the details. Unless the government acts quickly to head it off, the press will dub the scandal "DHMO-gate," and we'll never hear the end of it.

wolverine49

[FJ and G]

Hi John,

The asphalt roads I make have the look and feel of real asphalt. I've included a photo of my last layout to show part of the road. I first lay down sand. The finer the sand, the finer the asphalt. Then, fix the sand with a liberal spray of water, wood or white glue and a bit of liquid soap and rubbing alcohol (to make it penetrate). Wait until dry and then paint with the illegal high-gloss black paint. :-)

[FJ and G]

BTW, another recipe for illegal high gloss paint is for rivers. Lay down a plaster base (I use joint compound, which often cracks when dry so you may need to apply patches to the cracks. Then, apply high-gloss bluish paint, adding high-gloss black to darken as desired. I'll try to look for some photos of the illegal stuff. Hopefully, federal authorities won't confiscate the photos or layout. :-)

[FJ and G]

Here's pictures of the road and also the river using illegal high-gloss paint in the procedure I just described:







WARNING! What I have shown is illegal. DO NOT try this at home. Turn in your illegal high gloss paint immediately
[:D]

[pbjwilson]

I've been hearing about the oil-based paints being taken off the market for years. I'm a painter by trade and this VOC, Oil-based, high gloss, nonsense has been going on since I started painting 20 years ago. I would hear or read about how there was not going to be any oil-based paint in 5 yrs. and all paint manufacturers would have to comply with certain standards. 5,10,15 years passed and I can still purchase oil paints. The thing is I don't want to use them anymore. The latex, acrylic, and now what they call "waterborne enamels" are far superior to any of the oil-based paints. The latex paints I use today bare little resemblence to the paints of 20 years ago. They adhere like crazy, brush on like silk, and dry hard in hours.
Try some high-gloss waterborne enamel and I bet you won't go back to oil.

[FJ and G]

BTW, forgot to mention that the RS-3 you see in my photos I handpainted using glossy enamel paint. It was formerly a yellow Lionel construction engine.

------

Here's the beginning of the long WashPost article:

Supply of Oil-Based Paint Thins as New Rule Takes Effect
Sale Restrictions Aim to Curb Ozone Pollution

By Margaret Webb Pressler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 24, 2005; Page A01

Carlos Diez felt a little extreme when he stockpiled 1,000 gallons of oil-based house paint last November. But with his stash of the precious glossy dwindling, he's going a bit crazy again, stopping at any store he thinks might have some cans squirreled away.

"I feel like an addict. I went to Strosniders last week in Bethesda. They had about 40 gallons. I bought all 40 gallons," he said. "I've been talking to everyone. I say, 'You have paint? What color?' If it's a color I think I can use, I buy it."

When his stockpile is gone, he said, "I don't know what I'm gonna do."

What he'll probably do is switch to latex paint, as so many other painters in the area have done because of a new, but largely unpublicized, regulation restricting the sale of oil-based, or alkyd, paint.

[Anonymous]

Chemistry is difficult and its problems are complex. Even if most of the Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC's) are removed from paint, it will still be full of DHMO. Is this cause for concern? I don't know. I never paid much attention in class.

Forum members W4BAR and ben10ben seem to appreciate the finer points of our nationwide aversion to chemistry. Years ago, the DuPont Co. quietly abandoned it's long-time slogan, "Better things for better living...through chemistry" because so many Americans were upset by that final word.

All I know about chemistry is that I am scared to death of substances that go by arcane initials, like DHMO and BVD. I worry that unless we all pay closer attention to what is really going on here, paint may be banned altogether and we will be forced to wallpaper our trains.

wolverine49

[pbjwilson]

Wolverine,

http://fauxtoys.com/pages/100-train.html

Some already wallpaper their trains

[csxt30]

Hi Dave, & thanks for the asphalt road building tips! I think it looks like just the ticket. Thanks again, John

[Anonymous]

This DHMO stuff is bad news. I found some of it in my own home. The previous tennants had not told me about it when they sold the house. I was P.O.'d. I was wet with sweat when i discovered this stuff. After all, I had all of my liquidity tied up in this house, and to find out that I literally had DHMO flowing through my house was enough to drench me in fear. When some spilled on the floor, I tried to mop it up, but it just got all over the floor tiles and smeared all over the place. Eventually, it evaporated, but that was terrible because then I knew the wife and kids were going to be breathing in that vapor. It was one of those "save them" or "save yourself" situations. Heck, they never liked my trains anyway. I kind of miss them around this time of year though. They'd always get me something neat for the train layout for Father's Day. Oh well, as they say, "Stay Dry, Stay Safe"

[Anonymous]

Well, that wont last long. The very first sentence says that the stuff has a "hard, high-gloss surface ."

Bob
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the
unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world
to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the
unreasonable man."

[Anonymous]

Note to dan18425,

Very nicely put. Sorry about your family, but you were called upon to make a watershed decision and by gum you did it. No shallow thinking on your part.

If the enthusiam for the DHMO phenomenon has been a bit damp, just remember: you can lead a horse...

I doubt that I can absorb any more of this, so I shall sail on the next tide.

wolverine49

[gvdobler]

Don't forget. There is a current bill being passed around to ban kitchen (sharp) knives as unsafe , and there was a bill a couple years back to require 5 gallon buckets to be made with holes in them because babies have fallen over in a 5 gallon bucket full of water and drowned.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gvdobler

Don't forget. There is a current bill being passed around to ban kitchen (sharp) knives as unsafe ,

Well it's about time.
When I was in the 2nd grade (1945) I cut my thumb, with a butcher knife, trying to make a bow out of a dead tree limb. Just think if Big Brother had been watching out for me then, my parents, the tree owner and the knife manufacturer would still be in jail.

Bob
If stupidity got me into that mess, then why can't it get me back out?