reversing lionel with out tmcc or e unit

[Anonymous]

Is it possible to reverse the direction of a lionel engine without having to use the e unit? I am building a 8'x8' layout for my 3 daughters and myself to enjoy and they have a hard time with the foward/neutral/reverse in the e unit. Icant afford tmcc so I'm open to any help I can get

Thank you

[ChiefEagles]

Convert to DC.

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the forum, maybe someone else can post a link or describe how to convert your loco to DC operation.

Just wondering, is your unit TMCC equipped?

[ben10ben]

How easy an engine is to convert to DC depends on the type of motor. With the more modern can motors, the motors just need to be wired directly to the ground and pick-up rollers. With an open-frame(Pullmor) motor, you need to wire a full wave bridge rectifier to the brushes, connect this to the frame and center rollers, and then connect the remaining wire from the core to the rollers. Some of Lionel's engines of the past 20 years came from the factory wired for DC, and can usually be had for a small amount of money.

If you convert to DC, you will need either an HO powerpack(not very expensive), or a full wave bridge rectifier and DPDT switch to use with your existing transformer.

Lionel also made some engines during the '70s with a strictly manual reverse via a switch on top of the engine. Pulling the switch back would make the engine run forward, center and it was in neutral, and forward and it would go in reverse. Such engines ran quite well(I have one that's very enjoyable to run), and can be had for under $50 today usually. They can run on either AC or DC.

[Anonymous]

Thank you to all who responded. Does anyone know of any web sites out there that show how to convert my engines to DC. [8D]

[lionelsoni]

The method Ben described results in a shunt-wound motor, which tends to want to run at a constant speed, up to the point that the field saturates. The field winding will also draw more current than it is designed for and may overheat.

There is a better arrangement that preserves the series-wound nature of the motor: Simply put the bridge rectifier in place of the e-unit. Connect the + and - terminals in place of the blue and yellow wires to the brushes. Connect one of the ~ terminals in place of the green wire to the field. Connect the other ~ terminal to the pickups.

Radio Shack sells a suitable 4-ampere bridge, their part number 276-1146, for $2.

[ole1]

Boy you guys get complicated. Get yourself an older Lionel engine that had the 2 position ( forward or reverse) e-unit or replace the unit you have with a two position unit (frequently found on eBay) or just get an old reliable Marx set cause they come that way. Ole

[lionelsoni]

The 2-position e-unit requires a motor with a center-tapped field winding; so you can't just replace a 3- with a 2-, even if that would satisfy 1bearsson's daughters. Replacing either e-unit with a rectifier, on the other hand, is pretty simple.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

The method Ben described results in a shunt-wound motor, which tends to want to run at a constant speed, up to the point that the field saturates. The field winding will also draw more current than it is designed for and may overheat.

There is a better arrangement that preserves the series-wound nature of the motor: Simply put the bridge rectifier in place of the e-unit. Connect the + and - terminals in place of the blue and yellow wires to the brushes. Connect one of the ~ terminals in place of the green wire to the field. Connect the other ~ terminal to the pickups.

Radio Shack sells a suitable 4-ampere bridge, their part number 276-1146, for $2.

Bob, I think there is there a way to do the old pullmore motors without the addition of a rectifier. If I remember correctly, that was how we did it at the Mall of America. I wouldn't recommend doing it that way however. Your way sounds safer.

Your explanation makes a lot of sense, and tells me why most of my pullmore motors are fried. What a mess!! And to think I was getting advice from an electrical engineer at the time. I wish I had had you in my corner.

Now I buy can motored locos almost exclusively. The only problem is I have switched back to AC track power. Since I don't need my trains to go in reverse, I have resorted to the old bridge rectifiers, sticking them between the pickups and the motors. Smooth trouble free running for hours on end, which is exactly what I require for shows at malls.

On my real layout this will all be moot, as I am using TMCC.

[eZAK]

[#welcome] 1bearsson,

What problems are the girls having with the ay the e-unit operates?

If it is just moving the throttle handle off and on again there is a simple solution.

Install a simple pushbutton between the trans and track.
You will still have F/N/R but it will be easier to operate.

With the e-unit sw. off you can use the push button as a Stop & Go.

[lionelsoni]

Thanks for the kind words, Elliot.

There is indeed "a way to do the old pullmore motors without the addition of a rectifier". In fact, they will run just fine on dc without any modification. Of course, you can't use the whistle; and the direction control is still by the e-unit. That is, the motors will not respond to a polarity reversal. But, since you didn't need direction control for your one-way application, you could simply have locked the e-units into forward and applied dc to the track.

[Big_Boy_4005]

You're welcome Bob. As it turns out, I have a good sized box just filled old whistles, E-units and smoke units. All of the ones that were ripped out of the trains that were used when enterTRAINment first opened.

After a few months of daily abuse, we caught onto the idea of only using can motors. We ordered some Williams engines, and a whole bunch of K-line can motored trucks, and turned dummy Lionel diesels into powered units. By the end the entire fleet was can motored, including some new K-lines and Lionels.

A couple of weeks ago, I took the portable layout to a show at a local mall. The layout included a large loop with a passing siding, on which the trains took turns making laps in opposite directions. And two interlaced fugure 8's. Both used relay logic to control the trains. This is why "forward only" is so important to me.



That Milwaukee Road Little Joe near the center of the photo was almost running too fast at the minimum throttle setting of 6 volts. It had been retrofitted with K-line can motored trucks. Somewhere in the reject box is it's original pullmore motor, most likely melted beyond repair.

[lionelsoni]

Elliot, if a locomotive is inconveniently fast, you can wire the can motors in series. This will double the voltage and halve the current for the same speed and load.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks for the tip Bob, I may do that to that Little Joe and the Williams Soo SD at the far end of the photo. It helps to have engines with similar running qualities when doing stop and start action using relays. This is especially true for single throttle applications like the loop with the siding. I was able to get away with it fairly easily last time because the two figure 8's had seperate throttles.

A week from tomorrow, I'll be doing a new set up at a different mall. It will be bigger and more complex. "Taming" the Little Joe would make life much easier.